FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Fiddlerman's 2015 Group Christmas Project - War Is Over - Happy Christmas
sp_BlogLink Read the original blog post
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (4 votes) 
Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
November 16, 2015 - 7:28 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11702

Please join us for the 2015 Fiddlerman Group Christmas Project.
We will be playing, "War is Over, Happy Christmas"

The deadline for your submissions is Monday December 14th, 2015 at which time I will begin mixing. Keep posted as the date can be changed if I haven't begun mixing the parts. I encourage all 1st violin recordings to include one of the 4 other parts so that we don't have too many melodies. If the timing of your submission does not correspond with the playback file it will not be used. All submissions should be converted to MP4 (MPEG-4) with a minimum resolution of 640 x 480. No audio only submissions.

Since this is a Christmas project, I encourage dressing up in a Christmasy fashion with decorations in the background if possible. This will make for a much more interesting video for us to share on Christmas.

READ MORE>>>>

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Leana
Members

Regulars
November 16, 2015 - 10:09 am
Member Since: July 6, 2015
Forum Posts: 187
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have been practicing the old part to the mp3 that was posted- I guess that actually won't work quite as well now ? :/  (It helped me to keep time- that's for sure)

Avatar
RedViolin
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2015 - 1:53 am
Member Since: January 15, 2015
Forum Posts: 154
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh dear... this looks a bit complicated for me now... dazed

Maybe it's just that it's new, but I'm a bit worried! >_<

Can someone tell me what to do with the segno mark (I hope I got that right... the S shaped thing above bar 17)?

And I think the first section is in A maj (?) but what about the last line? I can't find it in my violin books...

Like Leana I was practicing the old version (part 4) with the mp3 - will there be a new mp3?

Sorry for the panicky post!

Avatar
BillyG
Far North-west Scotland
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2015 - 4:06 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 1645
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The key sig (last line ) is Bmaj  (hint - whne the key signature consists of sharps - look at the rightmost sharp - the last sharp is on the "A" - and is the "leading  note" of the scale it is going to be - which - one semitone above A is .....  yup B - so it's Bmaj (or, indeed G# minor  LOL ) - but it's all a matter of interpretation....  

Yes, I'm also a little confused about the "repeats" - I'll let someone else respond on that !

DON'T PANIC  !!! LOL thumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-up

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
Fidelestre
Texas
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2015 - 6:55 am
Member Since: June 21, 2015
Forum Posts: 240
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

These parts look significantly more difficult than the previous version. Will give them a try, but they might be out of reach at the moment. All violin parts appear to include the dreaded 1st finger low, which I haven't learned yet and probably shouldn't mess around with yet.

Avatar
AnnyJ
Ga
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2015 - 8:04 pm
Member Since: June 18, 2015
Forum Posts: 184
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

RedViolin said
Oh dear... this looks a bit complicated for me now... dazed

I second that! There are several things I don't even have a clue about, like the double bar lines in the middle or the wavy line with two dots and a line through it...

Plus, I have no idea how to execute the double up-bow without a legato line.facepalm

It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself. Johann S.Bach

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
November 17, 2015 - 9:33 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11702

Ignore the segno. I had it there to avoid rewriting things but copied and pasted and accidentally left it there. It shouldn't be there at all.
I believe the parts are way easier. Tell me what you guys think is difficult.
Normally you use a segno when after a repeat to know when to jump to a coda. I removed everything else and that one didn't get taken off for some strange reason.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
AnnyJ
Ga
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2015 - 11:03 pm
Member Since: June 18, 2015
Forum Posts: 184
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe it just looked more complicated than the first version because of the bowing signs and slurs and it's longer. 

 

I have some really stupid questions though lumpy-2134(I'd check on google, but I don't know how phrase it properly to get the right resultsfrown):

 

1. Should the double bars be ignored too if there is no change afterwards?

 

2. How to you do the up-bow on that one eighth note right after the slur?1.jpg

 

 

  

 

EDIT: Ignore question 3. I just figured it, darn I feel stupid now, what was I thinking...must have left my brain in bed todayduncecap(feel free to laughfacepalmrofl)

3. Is the A# in this section basically the same as the B? So technically it's the same note twice?

 

2.jpg

 

 

 

 

4. Is the first note in this measure a B-flat or a regular B? (it doesn't look like it's been sharpened by any of the sharp signs in the beginning, so what's being cancelled?)3.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

 

 

(Sorry about the editing mess, I tried to straighten it out, but for some reason it won't post it right. :-/ )

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself. Johann S.Bach

Avatar
Fidelestre
Texas
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2015 - 11:19 pm
Member Since: June 21, 2015
Forum Posts: 240
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The new version is considerably more difficult from my point of view. The earlier version mostly required the basic fingering such as used to play the one-octave A scale (on A and D strings) or the one-octave D scale (on the D and A strings). The earlier Violin 1 part deviated from this basic fingering on only about 3 occasions, when G natural was needed on the E string. The new Violin 1 part requires much more frequent placement of the 2nd finger low for G natural, and it also requires the use of first finger low to make A sharp during the section towards the end.

The other violin parts are similarly more difficult than the earlier versions, in terms of fingering challenges. All of them require use of 1st finger low. Yes, I can look at a fingering chart and kind of guess where to put the finger for that A sharp on the A string, but I'm still working to get consistently good intonation with the basic fingering and I don't want to get too much ahead of where I am in the Suzuki method sequence.

At this time, I am very much at the beginner level and am just not ready for a piece like this. Perhaps I should be able to play 1st finger low, but I am moving rather more slowly than I expected through Suzuki book 1, and I am just not ready to deviate that much from the learning sequence. So no worries - for now I will practice pieces more appropriate for my current level and will catch a future group project when I am more prepared for a bigger range of fingering. I look forward to seeing the contributions from others - the arrangement looks lovely!

Avatar
RedViolin
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 2:59 am
Member Since: January 15, 2015
Forum Posts: 154
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you @BillyG ! Very helpful! thumbs-up

And thanks @Fiddlerman - so there are no repeats, just play through from start to finish (unless I'm missing something)?

I had a bash at it just now, and it wasn't as tricky as I thought it might be, although I'm looking forward to hearing how the time change in bar 36 sounds... I can't quite figure it out.

The first finger low is a new one for me too, and particularly tricky to know what to do since there is 'normal'? 'regular'? (I don't know what this is called!) first finger used in the same bar also, but it's good to have a challenge (although the results may be spectacularly hard to listen to!) violin-bang

@Fidelestre (and others) If you haven't tried it yet, please do give it a shot - once the couple of questions I had were cleared up, I found it much less scary than I first thought. If you can get through the first 3 lines, the rest is much easier (I'm talking about Violin 4 here, which I just stuck with because it seemed the closest to what I was used to).

In fact, if you can make it through the first line, you can play almost a quarter of the piece. Bar 1 is repeated at the start of line 2 and the start and end of line 4, bar 2 is repeated in the second bar of lines 2 and 4, and bar 3 is repeated in the third bar of line 4.

Lines 5-8 are much easier than the rest - each bar is just four notes, exactly the same. birthday_balloon

The bits which will require more practice, for me at least, are bar 6 (with the D#), and the time change in bar 36, and the key change in bar 38.

I wonder if anyone can help me with understanding how A major and B major differ?

From my understanding, A major has 3 sharps (C#, F#, G#), while B major has D# and A# as well. If my reading is correct, the bottom line for Violin 4 is F# (same as in A major), G# (same as in A major), and it's just the last note, D#, that is different. Does this seem right?

[For those interested in Violin 5: 9 bars are repeated more than once throughout this piece: Bar 1 is the same as bars 4, 13, 15 and 16. Bar 2 is just 4 notes repeated and is the same as bars 6, 14, 22, 23, 34 and 35. Bars 9 and 10 are repeated in 11 and 12. Bar 17 is the same as bars 20, 29 and 31. Bar 18 is the same as bar 30. Bar 21 is just 4 notes repeated and is the same as bar 33. Bar 25 is the same as 28. Bar 26 is the same as 38 and 41. This leaves only 9 unique bars, for a total of 18 to learn!]

Violin 4 has 8 repeated bars and 16 unique ones, for a total of 24 to learn, if I'm not mistaken (and I may well be... my music analytical skills are terribly rudimentary!) The old version only had 14 bars total, but as many (19 in part 4 and 11 in part 5) of these are just the same note four times, maybe it's not as difficult as it first seems (?)

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
November 18, 2015 - 6:07 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11702
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I redid the parts so there are no segno signs, which just stuck when I extracted the parts. The score was right but the parts saved the darn segno marks.

If you guys look at von 3, 4, and 5 you'll see that they are easier. Violin 1 is basically the same as iBud did.
The chord structure is easier.

AnnyJ - You'll recognize the intervals on that last part in which I changed the key signature. If you guys like, I'll remove that last part. It's just an outro.
I hate taking the time to write bowings but if I don't, I get tons of questions about it. Playing a new up bow instead of playing down is a process of bow conservation in order to give you more bow in the other direction on the next long note. If you played up on the triplet, down on one eight note, then up you would really have to conserve the up bow to make it. Not easy, IMAO.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Fidelestre
Texas
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 6:43 am
Member Since: June 21, 2015
Forum Posts: 240
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Getting rid of the B major outro would indeed eliminate that troublesome 1st finger low fingering from I think three of the parts (1, 3, 5). Parts 2 and 4 would still require 1st finger low on D# on the D string earlier in the piece.

Taking Violin 4 as an example, the piece deviates from early Suzuki fingering in 3 ways:

use of C# on the G string (3rd finger high) in measure 1 and elsewhere on the first four lines

use of D# on the D string (1st finger low) in measure 6 and again in the outro in B major

use of G# on the D string (3rd finger high) in measure 24 and again in the outro on the final line

 

For me, the uses of 3rd finger high is doable, since I already learned that "out of sequence" to play the harmony parts for some early Suzuki pieces and to play certain fiddle tunes. But the use of 1st finger low is really not doable for me at this time - not until I am more fully at ease with the finger positions I'm already using.

But then, I might be the only one here still playing at this low of a level.

Avatar
Leana
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 11:55 am
Member Since: July 6, 2015
Forum Posts: 187
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I play mostly by ear so far.  I find the last 4 replies to this thread way over my head.  I can read some music, but doing the math like this is going to take me so long…..

I appreciate the learning- but don't feel I can keep up with it all at this point.

I was having a blast with V-2 from the previous version, because playing along with the mp3 made it much easier on me.

Now- I am looking at V-4 because I want easy for this time of year (re-applying for work permit is time consuming).  I have noticed one thing tho that might stop me in my tracks- My D, and G strings don't play as well as the A, and E. and since I really don't know how to read the sharps notations well yet, I might end up practicing all wrong, and we are getting down to the wire here.  

Once again I might find myself practicing, but may have to settle for being happy for all of you that actually pull this off.

Avatar
Leana
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 1:03 pm
Member Since: July 6, 2015
Forum Posts: 187
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

*just acknowledging that I am doing "blame the instrument" thing.  There probably isn't anything wrong with those strings.  LOL

Avatar
BillyG
Far North-west Scotland
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 2:49 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 1645
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

RedViolin said
....
I wonder if anyone can help me with understanding how A major and B major differ?

From my understanding, A major has 3 sharps (C#, F#, G#), while B major has D# and A# as well. If my reading is correct, the bottom line for Violin 4 is F# (same as in A major), G# (same as in A major), and it's just the last note, D#, that is different. Does this seem right?

I see it as a "notational convenience", by the composer/arranger - in theory there would be no need for a specific key signature change, it could have been left in A, but with a whole heap of accidentals - LOL - hence my referring to it as a "notational convenience....  eg below - there are two enharmonically equivalent parts, with the violin in B, and the pipe organ in A - they are, effectively, identical when played.....aorb.JPGImage Enlarger

  As a player - which is easier to read ?  Or does a sudden "key change" concern you ?   ( I don't mean "you" personally - I'm just discussing this )...  For myself, it doesn't "throw me", but in some ways - in my limited way - I would "live with the extra accidentals required" and leave the outro in A, as per the Pipe-organ staff in the image here.....    but that's just me ! roflol

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
RedViolin
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 6:54 pm
Member Since: January 15, 2015
Forum Posts: 154
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Don't worry @Fidelestre - based on your Perpetual Motion video, I think you have a better handle on things than I do! Much cleaner sound and better timing than I can produce 🙂 So you're certainly not the only one!!

@Leana how fantastic to be able to play by ear!smile I don't think I could ever do that...! I'm stil struggling with reading music, and each time the sheet music changes, I have to print off a fresh copy and sit down with a pencil to mark it up, lol. (And then come back later with corrections!!) Good luck with the work permit. Apologies if anything  said was confusing - it's probably because I don't know what I'm talking about! duncecap

@Fiddlerman I just downloaded the click track - sounds beautiful! Thank you!laugh

Also, thanks @BillyG for the explanation. I can certainly see how by having the key change you can make the notation look a lot cleaner, and I'm sure this is easier to read and less confusing for more advanced players, who can shift in their head to the new fingering pattern, if this makes sense. I think I'm just struggling because - I'm ashamed to admit - I wasn't even aware there were all these different keys and different fingering patterns etc until relatively recently! So it's good to get some practice 🙂

Avatar
Leana
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2015 - 9:58 pm
Member Since: July 6, 2015
Forum Posts: 187
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

click track ???? I didn't get that notice- I would even settle for the click track !!

 

@RedViolin - I am still new, and I knew this day was coming when I would have to learn more about reading music…….. I just thought i had more time !  LOL

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
November 18, 2015 - 11:14 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11702
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

You are welcome RedViolin.

It's exactly the same but technically it's in the key of B. For some it's easier to see the accidentals while for others, it makes no difference. For me, I like to know what key it's in. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
BillyG
Far North-west Scotland
Members

Regulars
November 19, 2015 - 12:44 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 1645
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Great stuff FM !  Thanks !

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: MrYikes
31 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today harvestman, fiddlinmama
Upcoming HeadCheese, Mad_Wed, ButteryStuffs, kit, makinnoise

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3755

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3555

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6441

Posts: 80329

Newest Members:

elaine a, Mukundan, MyMing, dbsimon, stirlingite771, mdedmon

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11702, KindaScratchy: 1651