FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
What Baroque Music of What Composers Do You Listen to?
Talking about personal preferences, favorite styles and composers.
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Demoiselle
Members

Regulars
July 11, 2016 - 7:47 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 179
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What Baroque Music of What Composers Do You Listen to?
Talking about personal preferences, favorite styles and composers.

I have been a big Handel fan since the age of 11. My father had records of his Fireworks and Water Music and Handel's Concerti Grossi. He listened to other kinds of music as well, but it was Handel who impressed me most.
Later I was listening to and playing nothing but jazz, but in the late 90s I returned to Handel and began improvising in his style too. But soon I got to know French composers like Lully, Charpentier, Marais etc.—also frequented a baroque dance class. Until 2011 I then got more and more interested in German/Austrian composers like Telemann, the early Hendel in Hamburg (Handel's true birth name), Muffat, Erlebach, Fux, always looking for nice suites to dance to. Menuets and Gavottes were my favorite tunes.
In 2011 I then began to understand, in order to develop my own improvised baroque style on recorder, it was more favorable to listen to Italian style solo sonatas than to French dance music. I bought CDs with recorder sonatas, but also some for solo violin. The violin sonatas also were supposed to influence my recorder phrasing, but instead they worsened my regrets not to be a violin player.
Since I began to play the violin in May last year, I had another change of style. Before I had preferred to buy CDs with music of the early 1700s, now I prefer solo sonatas for violin from the 1600s. I also bought Vivaldi's violin sonatas he had published in the Netherlands in 1716, but mainly listen to the Italian generation before him: Albertino, Stradella, Legrenzi, Uccellini etc./etc. My favorite form now isn't the Menuet so much anymore, but rather the Chaconne. I also prefer to dance it.
I also have sort of close relationship to Johann Mattheson, who was Handel's/ Hendel's friend in Hamburg, for Mattheson published lots of books on music issues, which I love to read via facsimile books. I have two CD albums with Mattheson's harpsichord and violin sonata works.
At young age I had bel canto lessons and still sing baroque repertoire. That's why I also have lots of CDs with vocal works from the baroque period.

Avatar
pj1968
St Petersburg, Florida
Member
Members
July 12, 2016 - 10:17 am
Member Since: April 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 14
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi, of course... plus Albinoni, Corelli, Couperin, and Scarlatti.

Criticism does not disturb me for I am my own severest critic.

- Jascha Heifetz

Avatar
Demoiselle
Members

Regulars
July 13, 2016 - 2:25 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 179
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I shouldn't have forgotten Corelli, I have sonatas with just b.c., for violin and recorder of. His sonatas for violin are very important now, to influence my style. I sorted my Albinoni album out, since it's unauthentic symphonic sound. But I should look for Albinoni, whether he has some soloistic for me. I have nice things from Torelli, but not solo stuff.

I shouldn't have forgotten my double album of Bonporti, which is violin plus b.c.

Avatar
Jacques
San Diego
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
July 13, 2016 - 10:31 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2014
Forum Posts: 207
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I suppose Bach is the main guy in that aspect, I would say Eugene ysaye 'ballade' is a modernized baroque style with more aggressive sound.

 

here is my new favorite video. 

I too enjoy improvising in a very modern baroque style (double stops harmony while playing melody) I like it because it is slow and passionate - dipping and diving the bow in these drawn out stroke with distinct timbre or mood. It's romantic , it's colorful, it's hard, and it's soothing. Not fast and bright.

 

but I don't know much about baroque unless my statements above are accurate.

Avatar
Demoiselle
Members

Regulars
July 14, 2016 - 6:24 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 179
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I prefer Handel's famous keyboard sarabande to ride over. Bach had never been to Italy, like Handel did and I feel like he has not Handel's natural groove.

Bach was not just pretty much unknown at his time, he was also taking away musical freedom from his musicians. Which made them very mad, because variation and improvisation was common. Handel's fame in London also came to the Reich, so he got famous there as well. But the most successful musician of that time was Telemann, who was older than Handel and Bach. Bach was regionally known and that was pretty much all. Bach's fame started in the 1800s, when Lutheran's more and more discovered his church music.

If it comes to freedom of improvisation, Handel is the better example. But we only scratch the surface of the music community at that time, if we only see Telemann, Handel and Bach. To stay in the Reich, there were composers like Erlebach, Fux, Biber and not to forget the Hamburger Opera composer Keyser. All these people, and more, where more important than Bach at their time. And their musicians had to be able to do both: read sheets and improvise (like jazz professionals today). If we involve France, Italy etc./etc., we get an extremely long list of star-composers, who were famous all over Europe at their time.

Avatar
Demoiselle
Members

Regulars
July 14, 2016 - 6:54 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 179
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

To present two examples which show how free and groovy baroque music can be, I'd like to add two great videos of the standard theme LA FOLIA:

The first one is a session with the Spanish violinist Lina, the second was recently posted by Fiddlerman:
feature=em-subs_digest

LA FOLIA resembles a usual SARABANDA a lot. Both come from Spanish music, there still can (and should) be percussion added (not necessarily a must but it belongs there) and they are meant for dancing. The dancers of the early 1700s still used castanets—mostly females and this was also the case in France and Germany. So both have a lot in common with what we call Flamenco.

Back to Lina's version: I really thought, these people are improvising, because it comes across so naturally grooving. But then you see, they have sheets. So they can, like some jazz musicians do, play off sheet and make it groove like just riding on something. To me it very much sounds like improvisation, which to me is one more proof, that this music really was supposed to be improvised.

Avatar
Demoiselle
Members

Regulars
July 14, 2016 - 7:20 am
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 179
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

La Folia
| Dm| A | Dm| C |
| F | C | Dm| A |
| Dm| A | Dm| C |
| F | C |Dm/Dm/A| Dm|

Keyboard Sarabande by Handel
| Dm| A | F | C |
| Gm| Dm| B♭*| A |
| Dm| A | F | C |
| Gm| Dm/Dm/B♭| B♭/B♭/A| Dm|

* For improvisation choruses I find B♭ best, but while playing the theme Handel's way is best for this bar: |B♭maj7/Gm7/Gm7|, but of course we don't play all five notes. Handel arranged it this way and I follow it: 

 

D D--  (descant notes)

A G-- (descant notes, second voice)

______

B B-- (bass notes)

Avatar
Jacques
San Diego
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
July 14, 2016 - 10:23 am
Member Since: December 14, 2014
Forum Posts: 207
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Demoiselle said
La Folia
| Dm| A | Dm| C |
| F | C | Dm| A |
| Dm| A | Dm| C |
| F | C |Dm/Dm/A| Dm|

Keyboard Sarabande by Handel
| Dm| A | F | C |
| Gm| Dm| B♭*| A |
| Dm| A | F | C |
| Gm| Dm/Dm/B♭| B♭/B♭/A| Dm|

* For improvisation choruses I find B♭ best, but while playing the theme Handel's way is best for this bar: |B♭maj7/Gm7/Gm7|, but of course we don't play all five notes. Handel arranged it this way and I follow it: 

 

D D--  (descant notes)

A G-- (descant notes, second voice)

______

B B-- (bass notes)  

a d g are "holy notes" in the Pythagoras theory of music. 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/es...../sta19.htm

i suppose that's why the fiddle makes such good drone notes.

Avatar
Demoiselle
Members

Regulars
July 14, 2016 - 4:21 pm
Member Since: June 26, 2016
Forum Posts: 179
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't know how holy notes were to Handel, but his solution in the 7th bar is simply ingenius. I find avoiding parallel fifths in a case like this generally not a good idea, because it makes the Spanish heat lukewarm, but this solution of Handel is divine. I feel like it is to hear, that Handel had spent time in Italy and got closer to the sources than Bach. Great parts of Italy had been Spanish territory for a long time. That's why there have been a lot of similarities between Spain and especially South Italy. Authentic baroque music is youthfully hot—very different from post-baroque symphonic interpretations dominating the last century before the 1980s. I must warn folks to consume the kind of baroque music which is being played in the style of classical music, which is lukewarm, lame and bloodless. It can be compared in this very interesting video:

The woman plays authentic, she sounds natural and simply better.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online:
27 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today Ginnysg
Upcoming HeadCheese, lakelivr, harvestman, fiddlinmama

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3754

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3551

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6439

Posts: 80296

Newest Members:

stirlingite771, mdedmon, coreshanethi, wisco kid, Yael, tobypaul

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11694, KindaScratchy: 1650