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FM to the Rescue !
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Oliver
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December 29, 2011 - 9:26 pm
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I suspect that other members might have similar questions unless they are more educated than me which is possible (likely).

Barry had a post on Dec. 14 called "International Group Fiddlerman Red Wing youtube project.".  About half way down the post is a picture of music for Red Wing and this music contains double stops.  I would like to try that but I seem to always have trouble with fingering choices.....what is the best way?

Will you mark up a page of this music and post it with fingering indicated?  Sort of like the site music that contains bow markings and fingering.  Come to think of it, bow marking might not be a bad idea also.

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 30, 2011 - 12:06 am
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I will Oliver. Send me an email next week if I haven't gotten around to it. Have a long gig tomorrow, a party on Saturday, and a lot of work for Fiddlershop this weekend. 🙂

I already have the music written out since I jotted it down for the dark side.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Late bloomer
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December 30, 2011 - 8:26 am
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Yes, I was just going to play it with one double stop at the end. But I might rethink that now.dancing

No matter where you go, there you are!

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Oliver
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December 30, 2011 - 1:03 pm
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@ FM    OK.  Will send reminder next week.

 

(Meanwhile, only need a short answer ....... with your gigs seemingly picking up, where does the music come from?  Does your personal repertoire cover most occasions or is printed music somehow supplied?  Do you maintain a published music library?) (This question has nothing to do with Red Wing.)

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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QuicheLoraine
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December 30, 2011 - 2:30 pm
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Oliver,

I don't know if this will help, but here is Red Wing as notated in the Fiddler's Fakebook (the link above is to my Picasa Web Albums):

red_wing.jpgImage Enlarger

It doesn't have the fingering, but it does have most of the possible double stops notated. I do think often it is played triple fiddle though with a lead and harmony, but many of these double stops are doable with a bit of practice, mostly 1st position fingering. I don't think all of them need to be played for it to sound "spiffy". I am surprised Johnny Gimble isn't listed here in the recording examples, but the one with he and Chet Atkins, Marty Stuart, Asleep at the Wheel, etc., is a great example, and he plays it at a decent tempo, not too fast to play along with. Gimble adds an extra eighth note roll after the D (sustained half note), and a shuffle bowing for the chorus. As for bowing, I would think it's a player's preference, but I start on an up bow, slurring the first two lead in notes, but you might see what Barry starts with on his video.     

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Late bloomer
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December 30, 2011 - 2:57 pm
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Asleep at the wheel ! My favorite country swing band.dancing

Miles and Miles of Texas!! So true, So true.exactly

No matter where you go, there you are!

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QuicheLoraine
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December 30, 2011 - 3:14 pm
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Late bloomer said

Asleep at the wheel ! My favorite country swing band.dancing

Miles and Miles of Texas!! So true, So true.exactly

Me too, and of course Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys heart 

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Oliver
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December 30, 2011 - 3:22 pm
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@Lorraine

Wow, Gimble plays the violin upside down !!!!!!!

feature=related

At least this is one bad habit I don't have !!!!!!

Otherwise I did enjoy his YouTubes.

Your fakebook page is just about what Barry posted.

I'm sure that when FM does his version it will be inspiring.

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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QuicheLoraine
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December 30, 2011 - 6:49 pm
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Oliver, this is not what I meant by double stops (!?!)...the Joe Venuti way (I knew those guys were in cahoots!) of taking the bow apart and threading the violin through...naw, not his usual way of playing, though that would cover it- ha!

I'm sure you are right on FM's version, and I was just trying to be helpful. A full time Graphic Design student, my Christmas break started on the 24th, and I go back Jan 2nd (generous break, eh?), I didn't hear about the Red Wing project until yesterday. I'm not famous either...perhaps notorious or infamous for something, but certainly not famous by any means. I'd be much more involved here if I could, but the connection here to other fiddlers means the world to me.

Double stops actually was the first question I had for FM, since I had these scary 4 note double stops in Bach I needed some help with- I've been slowly but surely trying to tackle them.            

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Late bloomer
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December 30, 2011 - 7:27 pm
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I thought anything over two notes was a chord?dunno

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Oliver
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December 30, 2011 - 7:31 pm
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I always pay attention to fiddle talk because I did not have a teacher and good information is always appreciated.

I was kiddin' about Gimble but I have only heard about the "sling" bow technique which I never actually saw online.

Yes, I remember your Bach "complaints".

(How come I can't draw a circle while my sister came close to a career by auditioning her (graphics arts) portfolio around Manhattan?)

  coffee2

@LB  I think that "chord" begins around 3 notes but that's a triad.  Four notes is a chord for sure.  Maybe 3 notes is a chord for a violin because it would be pretty difficult to do more laughlaugh

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QuicheLoraine
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December 30, 2011 - 9:24 pm
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I agree on the importance of good info (: 

From what I understand, Joe Venuti was notorious for the "sling" bow thingy, but I heard Aubrey Haynie (fabulous fiddler!) do a similar performance live on "George The Bluegrass Show" for WRVU (old Vandy college station, now gone) years ago, late '90's.

My family sort of runs like that too- my brother doesn't draw, but he can fix and invent anything, my sister is artistic but not as much confidence or interest in it as I, but all of us play by ear and have perfect pitch, and my sister and I can read music, though I had longer training. My brother plays guitar, my sister played french horn and flute, and I'm the only fiddler in the family so far and tinker with ukulele, mandolin and some banjo (mostly tenor and Irish tenor), and we can all sing well. The rest of the extended fam is similarly artistically and musically inclined. A cousin works for a big architectural firm in Manhattan doing drawings and watercolours of the final conceptions, and another cousin illustrates children's books (Parsons and NY School of the Arts educated folk). My maternal grandmother played piano by ear, and was an artist (and a lefty like me), and my paternal grandmother was a buck dance/clogging champion of Decatur Co., TN. (: 

-You are correct about the chords. You could do 4 notes (technically a "chord"), as in Classical music (Bach Sonata No. 1 in G minor, BWV 1001, for ex.), but they are often played drawing the bow across 4 strings, and yes, they can be more difficult (er, intimidating) especially with fingering, bowing and in different positions (:       

   

  

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Oliver
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December 30, 2011 - 10:12 pm
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Wow, there has to be a jam in there somewhere!  Very impressive family/relatives.

My son recently sang a tenor aria in a Bach Cantata with the Arlington (Ma.) Symphony but otherwise has a strange musical background.  At 14 he left the house with his trumpet and announced that he had a weekend gig (say what?).  But after Sat. and Sun. performances he finished up with about $225 for his efforts.  I'm still not sure what happened. 

Shortly afterwards he gave up the trumpet forever  dazed

 

(My best kept secret is that my Grand Father probably was a gypsy street violinist in Budapest.  My Mother revealed that in her feeble old age so I'm not all that certain.  And sometimes my Grand Mother played along with her zither at home(Ukraine) and I did see her zither as a boy.  So maybe it is all true ?

coffee2

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QuicheLoraine
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December 31, 2011 - 12:47 am
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I am always disappointed when no one brings their instruments to Christmas festivities.

Nifty your son singing a Bach Cantata! Weird, about the trumpet though (: Maybe a love/hate relationship with the trumpet?   

I would bet the story of your grandfather is true! That's one of those secrets that should be a proud non-secret (: Hai Romale! I suspect there's gotta be some Romani in my ancestry given how drawn I am to the music which I pick up by ear unusually well...former life perhaps (: Parno Graszt, and Les Yeux Noirs are two of my current favorite Romani music groups- cannot get enough of the music!             

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Fiddlerman
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December 31, 2011 - 7:51 am
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Great thread, however maybe I should change the title to something more descriptive. roflol

Late bloomer is actually right. Two or more harmonic notes played together constitutes as a chord.

Oliver is also right since three different notes are necessary to actually define (recognize or name) a common chord. However, if you as a fiddler play two notes harmonically along side the melody, the chord can be defined based on the key of the melody.

Oliver, a triad is a chord and is the most common type of chord. Adding notes from the chord can for example give you seventh chord or a ninth chord and so on. You can lower the 7th to make it diminished, etc.....

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Late bloomer
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December 31, 2011 - 8:41 am
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The term double stop always sounded strange to me . Any one know its origin?

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Oliver
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December 31, 2011 - 9:02 am
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"Stop" is only a term for fingering a note on a string instrument but, usually, I've heard the term used by organ people and I imagined devices to stop the air flow to organ pipes.

Wikipedia says the violin stop was introduced in 1627.

coffee2

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Late bloomer
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Makes sence. In essence you are stopping the travel of the vibration of the string.

Good one Oliver! violin-student

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QuicheLoraine
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Fiddlerman said

Great thread, however maybe I should change the title to something more descriptive. roflol

Late bloomer is actually right. Two or more harmonic notes played together constitutes as a chord.

Oliver is also right since three different notes are necessary to actually define (recognize or name) a common chord. However, if you as a fiddler play two notes harmonically along side the melody, the chord can be defined based on the key of the melody.

Oliver, a triad is a chord and is the most common type of chord. Adding notes from the chord can for example give you seventh chord or a ninth chord and so on. You can lower the 7th to make it diminished, etc.....

Thank you Pierre! Until I started tinkering with ukulele and mandolin, the term "chord" in connection with the violin was virtually unknown to me, other than "arpeggios". Too, if someone asked me, "What key is that in?" (other than Concerto ___ in __ Major/Minor on the sheet music) I'd be hard put to answer them except to tell them perhaps how many flats or sharps (and which ones), until recently, and I realize now how important knowing chords and key signatures can be, especially in a group setting. Playing ukulele, I love the diminished chords I find in Brazilian music, like in Desafinado (love playing that one on violin too) (:   

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Oliver
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December 31, 2011 - 12:22 pm
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I know this is an FM approved thread but I have to divert a minute.

Lorraine, you hit a nerve with Desafinado.  I listen to it several times a year because I think it is one of the few "perfect" sessions ever.  My guys are Stan Getz and Charlie Byrd.  Getz is pure silk on his refrain.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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