FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Goodbye Fine Tuners?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes) 
Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
December 1, 2012 - 6:56 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

How about these ?
http://www.knilling.com/access.....ection.htm

Goodbye fine tuners?
Or are they the devils work devil-violin

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
DanielB
Regulars

Members
December 1, 2012 - 7:06 pm
Member Since: May 4, 2012
Forum Posts: 2379
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Probably the Devil's work.  But then, violin is supposed to be the Devil's instrument. LOL

I've thought about those.  It strikes me that it would be possible to just use one for the E string, and tune the est of the strings from the pegs, but they don't seem to sell them by singles.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
December 1, 2012 - 7:55 pm
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Pierre sells something like that:

http://fiddlershop.com/perfect.....=planetary

Avatar
Tyberius
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 12:51 am
Member Since: November 8, 2012
Forum Posts: 555
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Of course I am only a beginner like so many here. It seems to me, with these planetary gear type pegs, you will fall into a trap of sorts. First off, you are required to ream out the peg hole. That might make it near impossible to put back regular pegs. once you screw it in place, it might not be so easy to take it out once it has had full string tension on it. It may bite into the wood regardless or not if you used any glue or adhesive material. No real big deal if you don't ever plan to go back with that instrument.

 

The problem really is when you do vibrato on the E string. If your planetary gear is aligned so the peg "wings" are facing your finger board instead of up in the air, your fingers or knuckles could hit the peg "wings" when you vibrato on the lower E. Unless you can align the whole mechanical peg prior to install, you might not be so happy with it.

I just don't know how hard its going to be to adjust these as your tuning sensitivity will be limited to the tooth spacing on the planetary gears ratchet. If the "gear" is really a friction type drum, then it might not be a problem at all. Perhaps someone who has used these can shed some light.

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 4:27 am
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My approach would be to find out all the brand names of fine-tuning pegs and do web searches for those names together and individually along with other words such as 'review', 'problem', etc.  By that method, I have found some detailed discussions of the pros and cons of the brands of this kind of peg.

I have considered using these on an old fiddle of mine that has misfit pegs and non-standard tapers in the peg holes.  One advantage over fitting the instrument with ordinary pegs is that with the fine-tuning pegs, I would only need a reamer, not a peg shaver.

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 1:54 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I dumped all my fine tuners save the e string. I am having no trouble at all tuning from my regular ebony pegs. Sometimes things are sold to make money for the entrepreneur and not to really fill a need. imo. I love the idea of planetary geared pegs as a novelty not as a necessity.

 Shoulder rest and chin rest will be the next things to go once I am playing at a much better level. Maybe not permanently but I am curious about the experience. In a couple of years Im sure.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 2, 2012 - 3:43 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11694

What kind of strings are your using Robert? That is the main factor with not having fine tuners. Synthetic core allows enough flexibility to tune accurately at the pegs but steel core do not make it easy.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 5:44 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Dominants, they have the green thread on them. not sure of anything else.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 6:13 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

picklefish said

Dominants, they have the green thread on them. not sure of anything else.

Hi Robert

I use Dominants now. I like them more than the Pirastros that I had been using since starting to learn.

What is your thinking behind 'losing' all the bits that hang off your violin?

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 7:47 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

im not understanding your question about "bits", nothing hangs off my violin that I am aware of.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
KindaScratchy
Massachusetts
December 2, 2012 - 7:59 pm
Member Since: March 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 1650
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Rob, I think Ferret's referring to your comment about eventually losing the shoulder and chin rests. IOW, the things that aren't permanently attached.

Of course, there are other things that aren't attached, like the bridge, tailpiece, sound post and pegs. Wouldn't want to lose those!

surprised

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 8:10 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

picklefish said

im not understanding your question about "bits", nothing hangs off my violin that I am aware of.

OK, We. Start off with a violin with the basic needed 'bits' such as the strings, bridge, and pegs.

Then we add 'bits' such as tuners, chin rest , and shoulder rest. Things that you seem to be keen on getting rid of.

All I was asking was, why you want to get rid of the g fine tuner, the d fine tuner, the a fine tuner, the shoulder rest and the chin rest. Is it weight, sound, or purism?

Was just wondering smile

BTW ... I only phrased the question as I would have probably done to a friend here. No offence meant. I am not usually a 'verbose ' person

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 9:04 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

KindaScratchy said

Rob, I think Ferret's referring to your comment about eventually losing the shoulder and chin rests. IOW, the things that aren't permanently attached.

Of course, there are other things that aren't attached, like the bridge, tailpiece, sound post and pegs. Wouldn't want to lose those!

surprised

Hi

Thanks for understanding. Thought it may have 'me'. Many people don't realise that when you live 'Down Under' you think from right to left rather than the northern left to right. roflol

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 10:29 pm
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

The E string type fine tuner's that are add on's for the A,D,G string's will change the string afterlength. Afterlength is the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. As a rule of thumb it is roughly (yet not set in stone) 1/6 the distance between nut and bridge.

The Concert Master violin I have has the tailpiece with the built-in fine tuner's so the afterlength isn't affected.

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 10:50 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

no offense taken, just wanted to make sure what you were referring to. I took the fine tuners off cause all the more nicer expensive ones didnt have them so I wanted mine to look nicer. Im thinking about ditching the shoulder and chinrests after reading stuff and certain posts talking about it. Some purism, curiosity, challenge ya know, just to see. I had heard that it was possible to tune with just the pegs and thought why not.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
December 2, 2012 - 11:03 pm
Member Since: October 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 550
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlestix said
The E string type fine tuner's that are add on's for the A,D,G string's will change the string afterlength. Afterlength is the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. As a rule of thumb it is roughly (yet not set in stone) 1/6 the distance between nut and bridge.

 

That is so right and when it's changed the sound/vibration/response would be affected as well. Not only that, it also adds (damping) weight to the bridge. There're reasons why tailgut, tailpiece and afterlength have certain lengths, and tailpiece is at certain weight. Everything is hanging from end to end. It's kinda analogous to suspension bridge vibration, just different for different effects/requirements.

The Concert Master violin I have has the tailpiece with the built-in fine tuner's so the afterlength isn't affected.

That is very nice to know and they do that to solve the issue of afterlength changing when adjusting with add on tuner. The very basic violin starter kit usually won't have that expensive built-in fine tuner.

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
December 3, 2012 - 12:05 am
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlestix said

The E string type fine tuner's that are add on's for the A,D,G string's will change the string afterlength. Afterlength is the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. As a rule of thumb it is roughly (yet not set in stone) 1/6 the distance between nut and bridge.

The Concert Master violin I have has the tailpiece with the built-in fine tuner's so the afterlength isn't affected.

So it would seem that the geared pegs would eliminate the afterlength problem and still allow fine tuning, if you want that feature. As a learner I find the tuners very useful.

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
December 3, 2012 - 12:44 am
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

ratvn said 
The very basic violin starter kit usually won't have that expensive built-in fine tuner.

A tailpiece with built-in tuners is not usually expensive.  They are standard on many of the cheapest violins available.

Avatar
ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
December 3, 2012 - 12:55 am
Member Since: October 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 550
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Ferret said 

So it would seem that the geared pegs would eliminate the afterlength problem and still allow fine tuning, if you want that feature. As a learner I find the tuners very useful.

Yes, Ferret, fine tuners are useful. The problem with geared pegs is that most likely it would needed to be installed by a luthier as peg holes are reamed to correct dimension of new pegs, expensive along with the price of the gear peg set.

If your violin have tailpiece with built in fine tuner then it good, otherwise you could get one of those and put it on. Around $15-30 depends on the brand. I use Witner and it is good, served the purpose.

Avatar
ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
December 3, 2012 - 1:00 am
Member Since: October 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 550
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

RosinedUp said

ratvn said 
The very basic violin starter kit usually won't have that expensive built-in fine tuner.

A tailpiece with built-in tuners is not usually expensive.  They are standard on many of the cheapest violins available.

Alright, my bad then. Sorry about that, RosinedUp. I haven't buy any of those lately. Do they come with quality ones or just so so ones.

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online:
43 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today Ginnysg
Upcoming HeadCheese, lakelivr, harvestman, fiddlinmama

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3755

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3552

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6439

Posts: 80299

Newest Members:

dbsimon, stirlingite771, mdedmon, coreshanethi, wisco kid, Yael

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11694, KindaScratchy: 1650