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trades days and the patriot
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gStretch
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October 2, 2011 - 12:36 am
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so today i went to "canton trades days", pretty big trades market thing once at the begining of the month.  i saw violin! i really considered to buy it, even though there was no bridge or strings. the thing that held me back from asking about a price was that it looked a bit small. i dont think it was full size.  do yall enjoy going to trades days and finding old stuff?

and patriot is in the title of this post because we watched that movie tonight and it has mel gibson in it 😛

-g

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gStretch
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October 3, 2011 - 12:19 am
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thank you for the info! i'm gonna print your comment and take it for whenever i go to places that might have used violins! 😀

-g

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HeadCheese
Plano, Texas
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October 3, 2011 - 6:30 am
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It's been a while since I last went to First Monday Trade Days in Canton, Texas.

For those who don't know, the weekend before the first Monday of each month, Canton, Texas becomes a giant flea market. Actually, "flea market" is a complete misnomer, considering the size of the place is better measured in square miles than acres. You would need the entire weekend to hope to see most of it, and that's not including the spin-off flea markets surrounding the "official" grounds.

Quite nearly anything you imagine that can be bought, sold or traded is available out there, provided it's legal (or discrete).

Over the years, I've bought anything from beer-making supplies, to guitars, to dogs, to guns ... to crocheted toilet-paper-roll covers out there. I kid you not.

I'll have to try and make another pilgrimage out there, now that the weather has cooled in North Texas.

Thanks for the reminder, Gstretch!

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gStretch
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October 3, 2011 - 5:57 pm
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its cool that a fellow forum member is in texas! 😀

 

i really enjoyed going.  one guy was selling "etude" magazines. if yall dont know, they're an old music magazine.  my teacher used to get them. i bought two, one from the '30s. good in them, and some sheet music.

its grown, you should go again.  i hope to go in decemeber.  its a bit of a trip to make every month.

-g

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pky
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October 4, 2011 - 2:16 am
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Barry, thanks for the information, it is very helpful!

I checked our CVN 500, it said on KK's website that the purfling is inlaid, but when I used a magnifying glass to look at it, the grain seems to be the same, so i concluded that it is painted on. i have been wondering about that with a cheap violin how could they have inlaid purfling but I did not know how to identify a painted one from an inlaid one (since I have never had a chance to take close look at any violin until now). Now that i used magnifying glass to look at it, I also noticed that "painted purflin" was painted on pretty nice except some places. (BUT, how did they painted the purflings on and then the edges look and feel as if they are another piece -- the plate?)

Now, I have some questions for Barry and anyone else who has knowledge in these areas:

What does "pin striping" mean? Is it the string that holds the tailpiece to the end pin?

The ribs on both my daughter's and mine have vertical pattern(grain?), but I saw a violin on ebay that has a lengthwise rib, which I thought is interesting since most violins have vertical ones, which is better or normal — the vertical or the lengthwise rib?

The scroll, after Barry mentioned it, i took a look at our scroll, they are uneven — one side is higher than the other. On ebay, I saw some antique vintage violins that have the same problem (or not a problem). So, when it is crooked or not symtrically done (one side is bigger than the other, or the curls aren't the same sizes), does that mean that it is not a good piece of instrument?

Another thing about scroll, I saw another violin, supposed to be a strad 1729, the scroll was crooked — it is not straight if you look at the violin from the front or the back, is that a bad violin? The violin is playable, tight neck and every thing, just the scroll part seemed crooked.

Grain, is tight grain better than wide grain? I have seen another violin on ebay that the front has very tight grain, and the back has super wide grain – almost like a quarter inch apart — how would that affect the sound in this case?

Barry mentioned  about knots would affect the vibration, how about curvy grains? Is straight grain better than curvy grains?

 

Thanks!

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HeadCheese
Plano, Texas
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October 4, 2011 - 7:55 am
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Wow... Pky's post could use a thread of its own.

Lots of good questions (and hopefully answers to come) that will get lost in a thread with a completely different title, I think.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 4, 2011 - 8:16 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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Pky, it can be very difficult to see if the purfling is painted or not even with a magnifying glass because on new violins the purfling is extremely tight. Also they may fill the cracks with extremely fine wood filler so that their are no cracks.

I doubt that they would say their purfling is inlaid when in fact it is painted. On my new Larsson it looked fake though I knew better until some years later. I will try to remember to check that out on the Cecilio violins I have here. Unfortunately we have so little room here that I stored them for now.

When Barry says "pin striping" he is referring to the fake purfling.

You could always take a knife and scrape across it to be completely sure.roflol Just kidding, don't do it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 4, 2011 - 8:33 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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pky said:

The ribs on both my daughter's and mine have vertical pattern(grain?), but I saw a violin on ebay that has a lengthwise rib, which I thought is interesting since most violins have vertical ones, which is better or normal — the vertical or the lengthwise rib?

This has to do with the nature of wood and how it curves the easiest.

The scroll, after Barry mentioned it, i took a look at our scroll, they are uneven — one side is higher than the other. On ebay, I saw some antique vintage violins that have the same problem (or not a problem). So, when it is crooked or not symtrically done (one side is bigger than the other, or the curls aren't the same sizes), does that mean that it is not a good piece of instrument?

A scroll does not affect the sound of the instrument but can be an indication of the quality of the workmanship involved.

Grain, is tight grain better than wide grain? I have seen another violin on ebay that the front has very tight grain, and the back has super wide grain – almost like a quarter inch apart — how would that affect the sound in this case?

Tight grain is an indication of much better wood quality. Slow growing trees, more strength. Older and aged wood is often better.

You can't necessarily see the grain the same way on the back because of the angle that the Maple is cut. If you cut wood straight through the grains you will see the tightness, if you cut it at an angle it will be much wider, if you cut it along the grain it will be huge. The top of a fiddle is the most important for sound and made most often from Spruce while the bottom is made often from Maple. They have very different appearances.

Barry mentioned  about knots would affect the vibration, how about curvy grains? Is straight grain better than curvy grains?

I believe that straight is best but not sure. A great luthier seems to choose straight wood.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Chinny
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October 4, 2011 - 9:06 am
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Fiddlerman said:

A scroll does not affect the sound of the instrument but can be an indication of the quality of the workmanship involved.

I don't know much about workmanship with electric violins but the scroll on my electric violin (the more expensive one) is a lot more simplistic than the one on my acoustic. Of course I'm pretty much comparing apple to pear here (both under the category of fruits, or in this case: violins). Just thought I'd mention this observation.

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gStretch
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October 4, 2011 - 6:08 pm
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chinny, violin to pear? whaaa? haha just kidding 🙂

-g

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