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8 Month Adult Beginner
I'm 8 months in, how am I doing? Any and all feedback is appreciated, thanks!
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (6 votes) 
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zdtownse
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July 31, 2017 - 6:29 pm
Member Since: February 12, 2017
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CyndieZ
Maryland

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August 1, 2017 - 9:24 am
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I didn't see your previous videos @zdtownse , but I think you sound great! gold_star

Keep up the good work. I am a beginner myself, so I'll leave any suggestions to the more experienced players!

Cyndie 

Cyndie 

Come and let us reason together.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
August 2, 2017 - 1:39 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16429

Great job for the amount of time you've been playing. Thanks for sharing again.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
August 2, 2017 - 4:37 pm
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congrats on posting and good job. 8 months and you did swell. the video and recording set up is impressive also. Keep up the good work!!!!!!!!

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
August 3, 2017 - 6:14 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
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Nicely done for 8 months @zdtownse - keep up the good work !  thumbs-up

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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damfino
my own little world
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August 5, 2017 - 9:26 am
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I think you're doing great :D  

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World's Okayest Fiddler
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Charles
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August 5, 2017 - 4:25 pm
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Not too many critiques: bow looked straight, intonation seemed fairly good (especially for the time you've been playing. There were a couple of bobbles in the 3rd number, but overall it was pretty solid). Both hands looked relaxed, and there was no hesitancy in what you were doing - at each point, you knew what you were going to do and how to do it.

Because of the camera position, I couldn't tell for sure, but it looked like your bow angle (whether it was flat on the strings or tilted) wasn't changing.  I'm not sure that this is universally taught - there seem to be a LOT of different styles of bowing. I'll describe what my teacher taught me:

Starting at the frog, the bow is tilted about as far over as it can go, with the hand cocked down as far as it will go (which is how you get the tilt). As you move the bow down the hand smoothly comes up so that it's about straight in the middle section of the bow, and cocked up (which has the hair flat against the strings) when you're near the tip.

This accomplishes two things. It gives you the second arc you need to compensate for the arc of your elbow (no single joint in the arm can draw a straight line, you have to use two), and it makes the bow use more or less hair in the places where you want it to. (Less at the frog, where there's a lot of weight, more at the tip, where you need more force.)  (You sometimes modify things for various effects - I'm talking about the basic bow stroke.)

If that's not the bow stroke you were taught, then chalk it up to there being lots of way to skin cats (which doubtless annoys them, but that's a distraction here) and ignore it.  If it is, from what I could see, your hand is keeping the same angle all the time. That might lead to pressure problems, but the bigger issue is that it means you have to be moving something else to keep the bow straight. It was hard to tell, but I think your upper arm might be moving some, and if the hand isn't moving, it kind of has to be.

Okay, I just watched it again, and I'm certain this time. Your hand is not changing position noticeably, nor is your bow. Your upper arm is moving. You don't want that. The upper arm should only move to position your elbow so that everything below the elbow can do its stuff on that string (or string pair, if you're doing double-stops).

There's a huge advantage to that, which I discovered the hard way when I re-injured my right shoulder.  I can't use that position. Raising my elbow out that far from my body causes pain. If I did it long enough for a decent amount of violin practice (say 30 minutes a day), within a day or two, that pain would reach "excruciating".  So I'm having to do it "wrong". It means I have to use a different pattern of muscle movements for each string and string pair.  And since depressing a string causes the angle for a double stop to change slightly, there are actually dozens (hundreds?) of string pair angles to have to learn. They're only very slightly different from the open pair, but sometimes that small difference can be enough to screw you up.

If you're using the proper technique (upper arm doesn't move front to back, only up and down), the adjustment is pretty easy to make/learn. If you're having adjust hundreds of muscle fibers to compensate for the change... let's just say I really, really, really want to get my shoulder fixed and go back to doing it right. :)

 

I do have a couple of critiques on your video.

First, move the camera about 45 degrees to your left, and about 5 feet back. We need to be able to see all of you and that will be a better angle to judge things like whether the bow is straight, arm movement, etc.  Where you have it now, we lose a lot of info because you're too close. Your right hand, in particular, goes out of frame quite often, and your right shoulder and elbow are out of frame most of the time.

Second, turn down the volume on the piano on the mix. I, at least, had problems hearing you over the piano. (I'm hard of hearing, so some that might be me, but it is pretty loud).  We need to hear you, not the accompaniment.

Hope the long ramble didn't make you think I thought you did poorly. You're doing quite well for 8/9 months - I suspect better than I'm doing at 15. :)

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zdtownse
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August 5, 2017 - 9:44 pm
Member Since: February 12, 2017
Forum Posts: 7
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Charles said
Not too many critiques: bow looked straight, intonation seemed fairly good (especially for the time you've been playing. There were a couple of bobbles in the 3rd number, but overall it was pretty solid). Both hands looked relaxed, and there was no hesitancy in what you were doing - at each point, you knew what you were going to do and how to do it.

Because of the camera position, I couldn't tell for sure, but it looked like your bow angle (whether it was flat on the strings or tilted) wasn't changing.  I'm not sure that this is universally taught - there seem to be a LOT of different styles of bowing. I'll describe what my teacher taught me:

Starting at the frog, the bow is tilted about as far over as it can go, with the hand cocked down as far as it will go (which is how you get the tilt). As you move the bow down the hand smoothly comes up so that it's about straight in the middle section of the bow, and cocked up (which has the hair flat against the strings) when you're near the tip.

This accomplishes two things. It gives you the second arc you need to compensate for the arc of your elbow (no single joint in the arm can draw a straight line, you have to use two), and it makes the bow use more or less hair in the places where you want it to. (Less at the frog, where there's a lot of weight, more at the tip, where you need more force.)  (You sometimes modify things for various effects - I'm talking about the basic bow stroke.)

If that's not the bow stroke you were taught, then chalk it up to there being lots of way to skin cats (which doubtless annoys them, but that's a distraction here) and ignore it.  If it is, from what I could see, your hand is keeping the same angle all the time. That might lead to pressure problems, but the bigger issue is that it means you have to be moving something else to keep the bow straight. It was hard to tell, but I think your upper arm might be moving some, and if the hand isn't moving, it kind of has to be.

Okay, I just watched it again, and I'm certain this time. Your hand is not changing position noticeably, nor is your bow. Your upper arm is moving. You don't want that. The upper arm should only move to position your elbow so that everything below the elbow can do its stuff on that string (or string pair, if you're doing double-stops).

There's a huge advantage to that, which I discovered the hard way when I re-injured my right shoulder.  I can't use that position. Raising my elbow out that far from my body causes pain. If I did it long enough for a decent amount of violin practice (say 30 minutes a day), within a day or two, that pain would reach "excruciating".  So I'm having to do it "wrong". It means I have to use a different pattern of muscle movements for each string and string pair.  And since depressing a string causes the angle for a double stop to change slightly, there are actually dozens (hundreds?) of string pair angles to have to learn. They're only very slightly different from the open pair, but sometimes that small difference can be enough to screw you up.

If you're using the proper technique (upper arm doesn't move front to back, only up and down), the adjustment is pretty easy to make/learn. If you're having adjust hundreds of muscle fibers to compensate for the change... let's just say I really, really, really want to get my shoulder fixed and go back to doing it right. :)

 

I do have a couple of critiques on your video.

First, move the camera about 45 degrees to your left, and about 5 feet back. We need to be able to see all of you and that will be a better angle to judge things like whether the bow is straight, arm movement, etc.  Where you have it now, we lose a lot of info because you're too close. Your right hand, in particular, goes out of frame quite often, and your right shoulder and elbow are out of frame most of the time.

Second, turn down the volume on the piano on the mix. I, at least, had problems hearing you over the piano. (I'm hard of hearing, so some that might be me, but it is pretty loud).  We need to hear you, not the accompaniment.

Hope the long ramble didn't make you think I thought you did poorly. You're doing quite well for 8/9 months - I suspect better than I'm doing at 15. :)   

Thanks a ton for the feedback!! I'll work on that, others have mentioned that as well about the arm movement, something I need to work on I guess! Thanks again, and long posts always contain the most valuable information, so again, thanks!!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
August 9, 2017 - 12:35 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16429

I don't know if there is anyone who hasn't had to work on the arm movement. :) Keep up the good work!

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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