FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Gavotte by Gossec
Suzuki book 1, last tune
Topic Rating: 4.2 Topic Rating: 4.2 Topic Rating: 4.2 Topic Rating: 4.2 Topic Rating: 4.2 Topic Rating: 4.2 (6 votes) 
Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 3:09 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There is no way I can get this up to 120bpm the way the kids do. I feel like I can watch a vid of myself playing and critique it up and down even sideways so the basics wont phase me. If you do however have something that would help me play faster and more accurately or if there is a glaring flaw or advanced technique I am all ears. I think my skin is tough enough now, just gonna grin and bear it otherwise.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Robyn.fnq
Queensland, Australia
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 9:45 pm
Member Since: July 7, 2011
Forum Posts: 577
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've also tried this one, but eventually skipped it to move to book 2 for more slow pieces to improve my bowing.  My book doesn't say 120bpm though.

I personally think you're playing too fast, if you watch Alison play at her interpretation of 'full speed', the whole piece seems so much more smooth and 'together'.

Just my opinion, but I admire your ability to play this piece anyway.

 

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 10:38 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I also moved onto book 2, while continuing to work on this piece. However, song nine in book 2 also has these 16th notes at a quick speed. All these tempo words represent a range of bpm and no two charts are the same, lol. I've been using cadenzastringsnc on YouTube for reference mostly because he makes it sound so nice, but he flies through this tune. The challenge for me is to get to that level.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 10:48 pm
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 3754
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Rob as I said in chat. I admire you for playing it.  I think you have it.. now do the practice 100x.... like with all songs... two weeks makes a difference.. a month.. two months.. (or maybe that is just my experience.. giggle.. hardy ha)

I am unfamiliar with the piece. But own it.. now I want to try it.   Thank you for the audio to listen to. :)

Waiting to hear all the praise and feedback..... :)

Good JOB!!!

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
wookieman
Tennessee, USA
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 11:16 pm
Member Since: May 17, 2013
Forum Posts: 277
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yep, I have absolutely NO help to offer you.  Sorry!  But great job.  You've got me wondering if maybe I need to visit that tune.  Sounds like you've made her your Elenor. 

There is no failure, only results.

Avatar
StoneDog
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 11:23 pm
Member Since: January 14, 2013
Forum Posts: 885
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

FISH > you are out there. > SWEET!!! > I watched a number of links on this gig and it is INTENSE!! > You ROCK!!!!

Avatar
screeeech
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
August 17, 2013 - 11:26 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2011
Forum Posts: 196
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Try improving your posture see if that helps the speed. You look like your are pulled in tight,  relax bring your elbow a little more under the violin. I'm not sure this will  speed you up but I hope it helps. 

 

 

Avatar
pky
Members

Regulars
August 18, 2013 - 1:23 am
Member Since: July 5, 2011
Forum Posts: 966
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Picklefish and Robyn:

My teacher has her students skip this song and move on to book two and then come back to it after 4th song in book two. I know kids could play this song real fast, their fingers could fly. I have skipped Suzuki books for awhile, just started on this song. My problem is I can't play the grace note clean, my left index is too slow. When it came to the two sets of 16th notes, I tend to split the first set, like what Alison said you shouldn't do.

I don't know what my speed is, definitely not 120 bpm. Any way, picklefish, if you want to play fast, try just use a little bit of your bow, like an inch or so, and bounce it. Also, move with your upper arm (actually not much movement) instead of opening your lower arm as if you have a hinge on your elbow. Although I watched many played this songs on youtube, they all played them differently. I noticed that my teacher teaches me and my daughter differently, even with the same song.

 

In fact, if you have the Suzuki CD, it is not that fast either. Below are a few links. number one played it really fast, probably two times faster than the CD, number 2 is a totally different style and speed, he used mostly the tip. number 3 bounced his bow but he also used different position,  number 4 and 5 are similar style but number 5 play faster. I play more like number six link.

 

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 18, 2013 - 2:20 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

bunny-headbang that moment when you realize there is no magic fairy dust, and that hard work is what it takes..........

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
Members

Regulars
August 18, 2013 - 3:12 pm
Member Since: October 7, 2011
Forum Posts: 2849
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Nicely done, PF!!!

About playing faster: now You're playing with your forearm mostly. If Youy'll relax right wrist and let it work more (along with fingers would be perfect, because it really hard to do without) - that will give You more freedom of controlling little movements that are very desirable for fast playing. 

Fast playing (left hand): when You play fast there should be more feeleing that You take fingers OFF the string than put down. Putting down is quite normal for brain and body, but taking off fast is a task sometimes.

Accuracy: You could practice soft bow-landing and string-crossing.

Anyway, You're doing fine already! I was enjoying that Gavotte.

dancingdancinbunny

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 18, 2013 - 7:35 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlerman suggested I move my elbow more under the instrument. I tried to do this and discovered I am limited in movement. Just cant bend like that anymore. I did go back over that one tricky 16th note run and treated it more like a trill and got it going rythmically at a speed more to my liking. Takes justa bout all my concentration, my poor brain is getting a focus workout for sure! I also went back and played slower using more bow and really worked it out. I will repost in a few weeks to see any improvement. Itd be nice to get my star sticker for this tune and shelve it!@ lol......It resurfaces as song 9 in book 2 and is all over book 3, curse you Gavotte!!!!

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
August 19, 2013 - 8:11 am
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
1

Picklefish said
Fiddlerman suggested I move my elbow more under the instrument. I tried to do this and discovered I am limited in movement. Just cant bend like that anymore.

Hmmm ... could you say again why you don't want to use a shoulder rest?  Seems to me that going without one requires more of the arm.  I'd think that if it were impaired you would want to take as much load off it as you can.

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 19, 2013 - 9:38 am
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Actually I suspect my elbow would have to be more under the instrument regardless of shoulder rest or not. Fact is for me I feel like the instrument is secure and balanced under my jaw. I feel that I can feel better what it is doing. My overall posture has improved and I have very little shoulder pain anymore.
Unfortunately because of something mechanical, my body just doesnt bend like it used to.
All of the above suggestions were helpful in reminding me just how much we have to keep in mind while also trying to play this thing.
Im happy to continue on working at it best as I can, shoulder restless even...

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 19, 2013 - 4:51 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

alright, you didnt ask for it but you got it. some candid behind the scenes of me talking to you. I bet you got up today feeling like something was just missing. This is the disturbance in the force youve been looking for!

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2013 - 5:34 am
Member Since: October 7, 2011
Forum Posts: 2849
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hey, i've just thought... Could You play this Gavotte from memory? That's exactly what i do while working on something technically difficult. I know - i know, people are different but if it helps me, so maybe could help You? I pick for example 2-3 measures that i find tricky, learm them and then play w/o sheet music billion times, because i want my brain to be only in my left/right hand but not anywhere else... Something like full concentration on one subject.dunno

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 22, 2013 - 7:39 am
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I do have it mostly memorized, as with the other pieces in the book. That is, I still cheat and look at the pages. I have the tunes stuck in my head. Once I have it fully memorized that I am confident it is it probably will be better. I am recognizing a certain time delay from reading music to playing it. I am also finding that I am reading just enough ahead to attempt to compensate for this. Its good advice you've got there.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
pky
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2013 - 1:26 pm
Member Since: July 5, 2011
Forum Posts: 966
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Picklefish said
I do have it mostly memorized, as with the other pieces in the book. That is, I still cheat and look at the pages. I have the tunes stuck in my head. Once I have it fully memorized that I am confident it is it probably will be better. I am recognizing a certain time delay from reading music to playing it. I am also finding that I am reading just enough ahead to attempt to compensate for this. Its good advice you've got there.

I agree with you and Wed_Med that once you have the piece memorized, you would speed up a little. The other thing is when you play that piece enough, when you are very familiar with the piece, your speed would improve, too. I can't never play any piece in any instrument as fast as I wanted, that's just me, I tend to stiff up a lot when I play. However, I had a friend who cannot slow down on certain piece:)

Picklefish, if you have limitation physically, I would not force it. Speed is not the most important thing, the important thing is the intonation, rhythm, playing the piece right, the expression, and how you interpret the piece. As you can see from the four video clips that I posted, all of them played differently in style and speed. Your speed is fine, I don't think I even play as fast as you do. 

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2013 - 1:51 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I often say the only rules are in tune, on time, at tempo. The last bit is very flexible.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
August 25, 2013 - 12:10 am
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Picklefish said
I often say the only rules are in tune, on time, at tempo. The last bit is very flexible.

Hi @Picklefish 

I have to agree on that mate. And I do 'really' about the tempo.

I've noticed with most Australian folk songs that they can be played at just about any tempo and still sound right.

And good work on this one mate. Thanks for posting it.

While not the kind of music that I'm normally into, it could be an interesting 'group project'

 

 

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
August 25, 2013 - 11:33 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11694
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

As far as tempo is concerned, there are some real cool things you can do playing well known pieces at completely different tempos. The secret is not to play the tune at the right tempo, but to convince others of your tempo. :-)
It's possible to play a fast tune at half the speed and have someone who has never heard the tune believe that it was meant to be played at that tempo.
I'd love to have a thread where members do just that. I can't promise that I'll participate, since I'm finding it hard to keep those promises but I think it would be real entertaining.
Right now I'm on vacation visiting some friends outside of Tucson.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: discountsale
39 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today Ginnysg
Upcoming HeadCheese, lakelivr, harvestman, fiddlinmama

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3754

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3552

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6439

Posts: 80296

Newest Members:

dbsimon, stirlingite771, mdedmon, coreshanethi, wisco kid, Yael

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11694, KindaScratchy: 1650