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here we go again :D
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rockinglr33
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May 6, 2014 - 12:21 pm
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hey guys,
been a while since i've posted anything or really been involved around here. i can say my violin practicing has kinda slipped a bit lately and for some reason while tapeing this i got nervous. lol. I have found when i'm recording something of myself i tend to try too hard and end up messing up my innotation and get lost on the sheet music, but i tried to keep that to a minimum today and stay as relaxed as possible :D oh and sorry for the weird angle. my previous posts have all been played sitting down and i've been playing a lot standing lately and i have nothing that really sits the right height so its at a kinda weird angle and the fact that my comp mirrors the images doesn't help. lol. anywhoo any and all comments/critiques, especially critiques are welcome.

Upon watching the video myself i really really need to work on my bowing. What else ya got to throw at me?

This is EE 2000 book 1 #125 Jingli nona for those who are following or have used ee books :D

feature=youtu.be

Lead me, Follow me, or get out of my way!

             ~General George S. Patton

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OldOgre
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May 6, 2014 - 12:42 pm
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nice work sounds good.

With violins there is no fretting over the music.

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BillyG
Far North-west Scotland
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May 6, 2014 - 2:45 pm
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Encouragement all the way from here @rockinglr33 - Way to go !!!!

However - and I'm sorry to say - I have never yet managed to submit a video (technical issues - I'll manage one soon) - so I can feel free to say the following -

(1) intonation - WAY better than mine ! thumbs-up

(2) I'm not sure about this - because I'm in no way competent enough to know for sure - but it does appear that you have a lot of shoulder movement with a "fixed" forearm with the elbow "extended" at times - and please believe me - this is not a criticism - it is but an observation and everyone is different. I find that particular playing angle "tiring" because that is how I played to start with ( but, I'm an old bloke, age takes its tolls in so many ways ) - and I now find it much less tiring with the whole arm dropped, almost vertical - OK there ARE times when drawing back on full bow-reach right to the tip on a down stroke that I have to extend the elbow and upper arm outwards, and end up with shoulder movements - but what I find is that the less of that I have to do - the "finer and more delicate touch" I have....

Anyway - that was just a comment / observations from someone who doesn't know a lot yet - and well done ! gold_star

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
May 6, 2014 - 11:39 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11694

As Bill said, you are using too much shoulder movement and not enough elbow. You're bowing will be much better if you get used to using more elbow and that in turn will improve your tone as well. :-)
Great job. Glad that you are posting again. :)

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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RosinedUp
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May 7, 2014 - 12:50 am
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I assume the video is a mirror image.

Your left-hand form is very nice: first finger pulled back low and square, fingers kept close to the strings.

Your intonation is very nice.

Yes, you need to be using your elbow. But I don't know why people don't mention the wrist in the same context. As I see it, straight bowing requires both wrist and elbow involvement. There is a learning aid called Bow Right that I think might be a big help in straightening your bowing. I've never used it or seen it used, but it looks like it would be good for bow-stroke training.

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
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May 7, 2014 - 1:33 am
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I posted a link to the, "Bow Right" assist gizmo last week. I think it was for "StoneDog" who claims he has trouble keeping his bow from wandering. But, i'm sure you can get along without using this type of apparatus.
Practice bending your wrist when your arm is fully extended on the downbow. As, FM and RU mentioned, there's no flex in your elbow, it's like having a plaster cast on your arm from your shoulder to your hand, including your hand. You need flex.
I believe that's the reason the good Lord gave us joints in the elbow and wrist was to be able to play violin. rofl

http://www.amazon.com/Bow-Righ.....for+violin

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
May 7, 2014 - 7:14 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11694

We have a similar product that super-sensitive sent us a while back. It's called the "Tone-Shaper Bow Guide" I'll test it soon. :)

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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rockinglr33
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May 7, 2014 - 9:28 am
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Thanks everyone! I'm interested in what you think of those devices fiddlerman, if they do really work or not. But i do try to learn without them first purely because it becomes a crutch after a while and i'd have to learn not to rely on it later...kinda like tapes...I shall work on my bowing for sure! gotta bust out a good mirror to help myself out :D

Thank you guys so much for your positive encouragement and help! I love this forum even if i don't interact very often i always try to pop in and see whats going on!!! now on to more practice!!! muh hahahahahah

Lead me, Follow me, or get out of my way!

             ~General George S. Patton

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John Rafeek
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May 7, 2014 - 10:06 am
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sounds nice rockinglr
i have an idea that i use alot when i record put a clip-on mic on the violin behind the soundpost and sit on a high stool ;) ;)

The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can’t know him if you don’t love.

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John Rafeek
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May 7, 2014 - 10:14 am
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or pickup would be better

The person who refuses to love doesn't know the first thing about God, because God is love—so you can’t know him if you don’t love.

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RosinedUp
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May 7, 2014 - 1:32 pm
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rockinglr33 said
But i do try to learn without them first purely because it becomes a crutch after a while and i'd have to learn not to rely on it later...kinda like tapes...

One thing about the bowing guide is that you don't know it's there unless you make a mistake, and then you feel a scrape.

It took me a long time to straighten out my bowing and develop a smooth stroke. I think this could save someone a lot of time. It would force you into proper form right away, so that you would learn what proper form is. I wouldn't expect to use it for much more than say 30 hours of practice.

I wouldn't expect this to cause dependence. But there are a lot of reviews at amazon by people with actual experience with it.

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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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May 7, 2014 - 3:15 pm
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RosinedUp said

rockinglr33 said
But i do try to learn without them first purely because it becomes a crutch after a while and i'd have to learn not to rely on it later...kinda like tapes...

One thing about the bowing guide is that you don't know it's there unless you make a mistake, and then you feel a scrape.

It took me a long time to straighten out my bowing and develop a smooth stroke. I think this could save someone a lot of time. It would force you into proper form right away, so that you would learn what proper form is. I wouldn't expect to use it for much more than say 30 hours of practice.

I wouldn't expect this to cause dependence. But there are a lot of reviews at amazon by people with actual experience with it.

I'm agreed with RosinedUp, but i kinda have a dual opinion about things like this (tapes, other guides, etc...). On one side i think that it could really save some time at the beginning.
But on the other side i believe that all the technic should follow from the desirable sound. Technic that doesn't sound good - is not technic. To avoid starting a dicussion about eggs and chickens, i'll explain with an example:
If i'm concentrated on the sound that i produce, and find a most nice and solid one (bowing open strings works well) - i find that in that moment my bow moves closer to the perpendiculair position to the strings - the same is considered as a straight bow. What is the benefit of that method - is that when one can come to a conclusion what is right consciously, then it stays longer and developes faster, in right direction.
We all understand that playing violin is a lot about automatizing the skill, but there are (that's again my opinion that might be not right) 2 ways to approach this - mechanical (repeating the right thing to automatize) and conscious - understanding why things work better this way and not another, what the whole thing consists of. The last one can seem difficult and boring but, as for me, on practice it way more simple and fun if one pays attention.
Example out of the violin topic:
You know that 2*3=6
But how do You learn it? You can just memorize, or You can realize that
2*3=2+2+2=4+2=3+3=etc... and now You can play with this as long as it needs to become a skill.
So it depends of what particularly one wants, how it's easier, and personal preferance. If one doesn't know what to want or prefer - no problem, one can TRY and figure out.

As my teacher says: "Imagine what it should sound like, and hands will do it by themselves". Well, that is quite a fairy expression, but in the whole it's true if one sets a goal and knows exactly what the small steps are.

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RosinedUp
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May 7, 2014 - 9:15 pm
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Mad_Wed said
What is the benefit of that method - is that when one can come to a conclusion what is right consciously, then it stays longer and developes faster, in right direction.
We all understand that playing violin is a lot about automatizing the skill, but there are (that's again my opinion that might be not right) 2 ways to approach this - mechanical (repeating the right thing to automatize) and conscious - understanding why things work better this way and not another, what the whole thing consists of. The last one can seem difficult and boring but, as for me, on practice it way more simple and fun if one pays attention.

@Mad_Wed I notice the similarity of your view to Galamian's:

from Galamian's Principles, chapter On Practice:

For all types of technical practice, the principle of mental
preparation is of paramount importance. It means that the mind
always has to anticipate the physical action that is to be taken
and then to send the command for its execution. This, it will be
remembered, is what I have called "correlation." It is the key
to technical control, and all practice concerned with the building
of technique or the overcoming of particular difficulties has to
center on the development and improvement of this correlation.
The way to do this was briefly indicated previously, but now it
is time to be more specific and to give some examples that will
clarify the subject.

The basic procedure is to present to the mind, for transmission
to the muscles, problems that progress from the simple to the
ever more complicated. These are problems of timing and co-
ordination in the form of various patterns of rhythm, of bow-
ing, of accentuation, and of the combination of all three of these
factors.

In progressing from simpler to harder problems one very im-
portant principle has to be kept in mind, a principle that applies
to any type of practicing: whenever one problem is mastered,
it is useless to repeat it over and over again. One should leave
it alone and proceed to the next. By practicing, as a routine,
things that do not need any more practice, one is wasting time.
There is no objection, of course, to returning after a certain
interval of time in order to check on whether the possessed skill
is still secure or whether any repairs are due. For the most part,
however, the guiding idea must be to solve one problem and
then to proceed to the next one.

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rockinglr33
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May 7, 2014 - 9:30 pm
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very interesting ideas on the subject of using the "tools" such as the bow rights and such. I am more inclined to the "prepare the mind to aching the goal" kinda person and that ways seems to be the best for ME personally, but if i need to resort to a helping tool because i just can't get it, its definitely nice to know its there :D I think half the fun about being self taught is seeing how much we can get right the first time, and in fixing some mistakes as we progress (hopefully before they are to bad of habits to break). Thats why i love the critique videos where more experienced players can throw in comments and suggestions to help out the learning process.....all great ideas and the discussion is awesome guys!

Lead me, Follow me, or get out of my way!

             ~General George S. Patton

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
May 8, 2014 - 2:12 pm
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Thanks for the reminder. LOL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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