FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Well Here Goes Something!
My first public exposure (can I say that?)
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 12, 2017 - 4:14 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well, I keep trying to do better, but I seem to be headed the other way 😉 I decided I'd better get something out here,  and not hide away.

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
Ferenc Simon
Members
November 12, 2017 - 4:38 pm
Member Since: September 24, 2017
Forum Posts: 88
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wow! You picked such a nice piece to play 🙂 

Awesome video! In terms of critique, what I noticed that the violin isn't actually on your shoulder, more like just pressed up against your chest and you even adjust it from time to time. (Maybe you have a reason for it, like shoulder pain or simply prefer to put it there when sitting) This appears to be making your bow slightly crooked in the other direction (reminds me of the end portion of crescent bowing), which could cause problems with your tone. 

That's all I'm going to 'critique', since you play way better than I do haha.

Other than that I really like your bow-economy 🙂 You manage to get so many slurred notes in on a single bow-change.

Great job! keep up the good work!

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 12, 2017 - 5:30 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ferenc, thanks for the comments. I haven't been recording myself for very long and was really surprised to see how wild my bow alignment is. I definitely have to work on that. I'm not sure if I can raise the violin higher or not. It could be the shoulder rest is too high, I might try to play around with that. 

Next to the bowing the thing that disturbs me most is my inability to keep on time. Especially when the piano part doesn't emphasize each beat. My teacher (20 years ago, for 2 years) kept telling me to feel the beat internally, I guess I had too many years of foot tapping 🙂 The 20 years I laid off the violin didn't help these problems any 🙂

Thanks again and I appreciate your comments, because you have made such rapid progress in such a short time. Maybe there's still hope for me 🙂

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
damfino
oHIo, USA
Members

Regulars
November 12, 2017 - 8:40 pm
Member Since: July 23, 2015
Forum Posts: 1466
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I wouldn't call your bowing wild at all. It looks like what you need is to work on relaxing your bowing hand, fingers/wrist, and to use your shoulder a little less, and work more from your elbow (this is where the flexible fingers/wrist come into play). But like I said, your bowing isn't wild like you said. You could even just be stiff from being aware of the camera (that happens to me).

Which shoulder rest do you have? The feet look like it might be a Wolf. If it is, and the one on your shoulder feels high to you, you can unscrew the foot totally and flip the holder around upside-down, and then put the foot screw back in the holder, and it'll be quite a bit lower (that's what I used to do before I took off my chin rest). Then raise the other foot until it feels right to you, sits without falling 🙂 

Keep up the good work!! 😀 

☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
On a journey to learn the fiddle since July 24, 2015
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 3:27 am
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 34
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm not sure it's a "wild" bow alignment either. It does get off the perpendicular, but consistently in one direction. Namely, it starts to point toward you on up-bows.

What I think is going on is this: your wrist seems fine on down-bows, but on up-bows you need to turn your wrist downward a bit more as you pull the bow up. Typically, on down-bows, the bow hair should be flat on the string, and on up-bows the stick should lean away from you.

Think leading with the wrist as you bow in either direction, and if your hand is relaxed, your bow will naturally do that.

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
November 13, 2017 - 5:59 am
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2236
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Nice piece @Bob and well done !

Yeah - the wandering bow thing - I find that occurring on occasion too.   For me, it is usually when I am being cerebrally overloaded (LOL)  like (a) I'm following sheet, (b) I'm listening to a backing track, (c) I'm not overly familiar with the piece and I HAVE to think "intonation" keeping an eye on LH fingering, (d) I'm considering expression (both facial and fiddle!), (e) probably also thinking about what I have to make for dinner - ALL AT THE SAME TIME...  haha - oh, and did I forget to mention the mere fact that you are recording.... LOL

If it is a piece I have "nailed" and "made my own" and can play it on auto-pilot - the problem disappears....  and I can select precisely where I want the bow positioned, and keep it straight!  hmmm.  The straw that broke the camel's back, huh ?

OH - @Fiddlerman - Bob should receive a critique badge !

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 6:53 am
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@damfino , @AndrewH and @BillyG  your inputs are really appreciated. As @damfino said, some of the problems are being the subject of a camera shot. I've always been on the other side of the camera. The shoulder rest is a Wolf as you noticed correctly, I've got the upper foot fully screwed in and the bottom fully screwed out. I'm going to take a look to see if I understand the method you used to lower the top further.

Bowing has always been my worse problem (well maybe not). I've always prided myself with having a very flexible wrist when bowing, but now when I see the videos I've been making, I feel it was more a "wish" than a fact 😉  @AndrewH I'm going to try using more hair on the down stroke. I had never had that mentioned before, but it sounds quite reasonable.

@BillyG  you're right, if I'm just playing around, not trying to read sheet music and sound "musical" I can relax and have some nice sounds emanating from the instrument. Maybe I just need to relax more! The danger in that is when I get too relaxed, I go to sleep 🙂

Thanks again guys. Hope to get more useful critiques.

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
damfino
oHIo, USA
Members

Regulars
November 13, 2017 - 10:49 am
Member Since: July 23, 2015
Forum Posts: 1466
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'll try to take a couple pictures and load them for you, or I might even still have the little direction sheet that came with it. If yours is like mine (I think mine is the forte secondo), the foot that goes on your shoulder should have a hinge that would let you make the foot swivel to point down. If it is able to do that, you can unscrew the foot from the rest, and leave the holder in that low position, then rescrew the foot so it is facing up again, and this will give you the lowest setting possible.

I also, on days when it still feels too high, will put the shoulder rest on at an exaggerated diagonal angle so the foot on my shoulder is the far one, and the one that sits on your collarbone is up closest.

It's good to play around with the shoulder rest to learn what is most comfortable for you. 🙂 

☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
On a journey to learn the fiddle since July 24, 2015
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 1:16 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@damfino I think I figured out what you were talking about. I removed the "foot" and swiveled the "thingy" and screwed the foot back on . It is definitely lower now.  Yes mine is a secondo also. I'll try it this afternoon during my practice time.

Thanks

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
damfino
oHIo, USA
Members

Regulars
November 13, 2017 - 1:52 pm
Member Since: July 23, 2015
Forum Posts: 1466
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Awesome 😀 Sounds like you got it 🙂 It takes some fiddling around to get it how it works best for you, and sometimes what works changes over time. 

☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆
On a journey to learn the fiddle since July 24, 2015
☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*¨*•¸¸¸.•*¨*•☆

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 4:54 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just finished 1-1/2 hr practice and it does sound better, but at this point I don't know if it was the shoulder rest adjustment or just not recording for the world (our world) to see 🙂 

I will keep it down and see if the improvements continue. I also set up a mirror in front of me (leaning against the camera tripod, so I can glance at my bow angle. For some reason, on the up bows I was locking my wrist, resulting in the tip of the bow swinging towards me. I was surprised seeing that in my videos.

I sure appreciate your and all the other fiddlers on FM forum inputs.

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
Ferenc Simon
Members
November 13, 2017 - 5:15 pm
Member Since: September 24, 2017
Forum Posts: 88
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Wow 🙂 You read my mind haha

I was going to suggest that you get a mirror on the side so you can see your bow from that angle, but I guess by the time I got back to my computer you already did it 🙂 Good thinking!

(btw, I have a fairly large mirror in the room and always go practice in front of that when I feel like I'm not getting the sound I want to and that's probably one of the things that kinda boosted my progress) 

On the wrist stuff.. I have a tip that worked for me. Sit up straight in an exaggerated way (back slightly arching back and chest out) and try to flex all you muscles in your back as hard as possible. If you do it right this will instantly lock your shoulder completely and prevent you from moving it in either direction. Do a couple of bows like that and you'll notice that in order to keep the bow straight you will automatically be forced to use your wrist... After a few bows (2-3) simply relax and continue. If it worked right you'll notice that you will continue basically leading with your wrist as you're supposed to while also suddenly becoming really relaxed. I found this to be great to teach myself which muscles not to use and which ones to use, while it's also a nice 'check' to see if I'm tense.

On a side note this also works for other stuff btw.. if you're tense somewhere, like your forearm from gripping the violin too much.. flex those muscles really tight for a couple of seconds, then relax.. If done right you should get rid of all the tension...  (By the way.. I'm applying these over from all the sports I've done in my life so it's not like I read them on any violin site or something lol.. It works for me.. but I've no idea if seasoned violinists would agree with it lol) 

Avatar
AndrewH
Sacramento, California
Member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 5:22 pm
Member Since: November 5, 2017
Forum Posts: 34
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Bob said
Just finished 1-1/2 hr practice and it does sound better, but at this point I don't know if it was the shoulder rest adjustment or just not recording for the world (our world) to see 🙂 

I will keep it down and see if the improvements continue. I also set up a mirror in front of me (leaning against the camera tripod, so I can glance at my bow angle. For some reason, on the up bows I was locking my wrist, resulting in the tip of the bow swinging towards me. I was surprised seeing that in my videos.

I sure appreciate your and all the other fiddlers on FM forum inputs.

Bob  

The wrist-locking on up bows was exactly what I was seeing. What it should feel like if you're doing it right is moving your wrist upward, and just letting your hand drag behind.

 

Ferenc Simon said

On a side note this also works for other stuff btw.. if you're tense somewhere, like your forearm from gripping the violin too much.. flex those muscles really tight for a couple of seconds, then relax.. If done right you should get rid of all the tension...  (By the way.. I'm applying these over from all the sports I've done in my life so it's not like I read them on any violin site or something lol.. It works for me.. but I've no idea if seasoned violinists would agree with it lol)   

Yes, I do this. (Seasoned violist rather than violinist, but same idea.) I also got it from sports, but since then I've heard musicians say the same thing.

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 6:13 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I like the exercise suggestions. I've been looking for some back exercises that don't require too much space or equipment. The tense/relax method sounds like something I can give a try.

Thanks for the pointers.

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
Ferenc Simon
Members
November 13, 2017 - 6:30 pm
Member Since: September 24, 2017
Forum Posts: 88
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Well it's mainly for a quick adjusting 😀 not an actual exercise. Whenever your wrist locks up you just do it and it should temporarily fix it and reinforce the proper motion.

If you want actual back exercises without equipment I can suggest a reverse pushup :)) where you lay on your back and press your elbows into the floor, trying to lift your shoulders from the ground. Or a door-jamb row where you hold on to the door-jamb with one hand.. leaning away as if you were trying to sit down on something (semi-squat position / straight back) then pulling yourself back with your arm tucked in next to your body (elbow / shoulder at the E string position lol) while trying to stay stable (one hand exercises are great for core-stability) then switch hands (and door sides) after a few.

Haha we're mixing sports and violins 🙂 fun times!

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 13, 2017 - 6:45 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

As far as I'm concerned violin is a full contact sport. I will give some of those exercises a try 🙂

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
Mark
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
November 13, 2017 - 8:52 pm
Member Since: September 30, 2014
Forum Posts: 375
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

As far as I'm concerned violin is a full contact sport. I will give some of those exercises a try 

Bob

 

Funny, sometimes I want to put a mask and cape on and play El Kabong 

with my fiddle across something hard when it giving me fits not wanting to obey my commands!! 

 

Mark

Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.

Albert Sammons

Avatar
Cearbhael
Minnesota
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
November 14, 2017 - 12:13 pm
Member Since: August 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 110
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Bob Don't give into that desire! It will only lead to regret and grief for your destroyed violin!

"Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one".- Albert Einstein 

Avatar
Bob
Advanced member
Members
November 14, 2017 - 1:21 pm
Member Since: July 13, 2017
Forum Posts: 61
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Cearbhael, actually that was Mark that was thinking of putting on a cape and mask and destroying his fiddle. If I put on a cape and mask, I'd probably try to leap off my roof 🙂

Bob

Bob in Lone Oak, Texas

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
November 14, 2017 - 2:20 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2236
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

OMG - You are all touched by a certain degree of.... well, minor insanity - I recognize and understand that - nomal for most fiddlers....

I feel so much at home here !!!!

Yeahhhh...

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: Mark
53 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today 8r4d
Upcoming kevoxyde, Freq, happyjet

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3978

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2666

Fiddlestix: 2647

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Kevin M.: 1969

cdennyb: 1808

TerryT: 1722

Ferret: 1575

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 7238

Moderators: 0

Admins: 3

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6911

Posts: 86093

Newest Members:

RussellSiz, daphnery16, delorisav4, HextraJet, deborahng11, tonids16

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 12740, KindaScratchy: 1706, BillyG: 2236