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Bow hair cleaning
Topic Rating: 4.7 Topic Rating: 4.7 Topic Rating: 4.7 Topic Rating: 4.7 Topic Rating: 4.7 Topic Rating: 4.7 (7 votes) 
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Robyn.fnq
Queensland, Australia

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I've had a great time with this forum post.  I've been told that because of some lack of response with the bow that I need to replace it with a new one.  I couldn't see anywhere where professionals would replace a perfectly good bow when it doesn't sound so good, but sought new information about cleaning.  So I've used the alcohol to clean it, then was called away with an emergency.  It's sitting at home waiting for me to re-rosin and re-try it.  Now I know about shampoo and popsicle sticks (known as Paddle Pop sticks here) and I think I'm ready to start playing again on my old faithful.

Now I also know that I can use lemon juice to make it sparkle, so next week when I get home I might have time to spend on the bow.  Hopefully it won't come to  a new purchase just because I was told it's 'buggered'.

Thanks to you all for some entertaining banter and some enlightening thoughts.

lumpy-2134

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

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pky
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I had great time reading this thread, it makes my day! I laughed till i had tears rolling out my eyes! I was learning all the tricks to clean my bow hair! You all are researchers - experiment experiment experiment! What's great is you all share your valuable experience!

My bow aren't that sticky and dirty yet, because I don't play that much, However, my daughter has a bow that she has been using for a year for an average of 45 minutes to 75 minutes a day probably could use an alcohol bath, lemon juice bath (we have a lemon tree so we don't have to use lemon extract), or popsicle stick scrape, especially near the clip area (that part probably definitely need some serious cleaning just so it would not look so gross)-- kid! Wash your hands before you touch your violin and bow that's another way to keep it clean! -- That's what I told her, ha ha ha.

Those $3000 + bow, what makes them so valuable is, according to someone I talked to, it will last forever if it's been taken good care of, you only need to rehair it, but the stick will last. someone (fiddlestix?) said he got his rehaired for $45 but the lady said in her area it costs $85 to rehair, so to her student bow that cost $65 dollars only last as long as the hair last or as long as the student outgrows it.

Don't they bleach the horse hair before they put it on bow? I thought horses all stand up when they pee, so why would the urine tint the hair on their tails?

I summarized the sequence of bow hair cleaning as follows and added some questions for our scientists:

1a. try popsicle stick first, if you are lazy to take 15 mins to rerosin or the bow hair wasn't critically dirty and sticky.

1b. use alcohol bath to take off rosin if your bow really needs it or if you really like your bow hair to be clean.

2. shampoo and conditioning (since alcohol already takes away rosin and grease, maybe only conditioning is needed?)

3. Do lemon juice bath to take off soap residue (would it take away the conditioner as well? Maybe step two is unnecessary), to bleach the hair, make it smells lemony (but the ordor of rosin probably will take over eventually). 

4. dry bow hair, reapply rosin, and enjoy playing~

 

@TerryG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popsicle

 

@Oliver, since you have ten bows, and you haven't clean the bowhair for the last 3 or four years, if you used them averagely, you are probably using each bow for about five months in last four years or about 4 months in last three years. So, your bow should not be too sticky unless you play eight hours a day! roflol

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Kevin M.
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74_toilet-horse.jpgImage Enlargerpky said
 

Don't they bleach the horse hair before they put it on bow? I thought horses all stand up when the pee, so why would the urine tint the hair on their tails?

 

 

Lesson on horse anatomy.  Stallions, boy horses, pee comes from under them. Mares, girl horses, pee comes from behind.

 

It's time to invent a horse toilet.

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Tyberius
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I read alot about viloins, parts, care and problems. I have only played it for a few months, but do understand alot about them.

 

The head of your bow keeps your hairs "permanently" attached to the bow at the tip. When you get your bow hairs wet, any soap type formula used for cleaning can lubricate the hairs folded or wrapped under the head. It can cause them to give just a little. The soapy water/liquid will seep up the hairs in a capillary motion. once there, it starts to do it damage. Any liquid not exclusively dried will be a disaster in waiting when you start to tighten the frog. The, now lubricated, hairs will pull slightyly out of the head. You will or at least can cause your bow to not gain enough tension due to the now exteneded length of the hairs.

 

Also, any soap not cleaned from the hairs, the frog or the head will become tacky with even ambient room moisture. This will then become a magnet for dirt, oils, and other dust. It can cause your bow hairs to not transfer sound, deaden sound and even make your playing scratchy. In the long run, this foreign matter will also decrease the life of your bow hairs from the additional friction. The debris will prevent even coating of rosin and can in fact give your hairs "dead" spots on your bow stroke.

 

Horse hair burns at about  450 degrees (almost the same temperature as paper). So the chance a hair dryer will damage it is unlikely unless you leave it on the same spot for several minutes. Its not to say heating the hair will not damage it for playing, I'm just saying to start it to burn. The thing I'd be concerned with is the metal in the frog or the lubrication on the eyelet/screw or the block holding the hairs in the bow's head.

 

I would say to not use any detergent at all. The lemon oil might be advisable, but I don't think it will cut the build up rosin from the hairs. I have my original bow, yes filled with all sorts of great soapy mixtures (and missing many hairs from abuse). I'll try the Alcohol treatment on it. I just put it in my case as an emergency bow hoping I dont need it EVER. Now, I have an opportunity to use it... if nothing more then a test subject.

 

Take 1 for the team!!! thumbs-up

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

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Fiddlestix
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x_Tyberius_x said
I read alot about viloins, parts, care and problems. I have only played it for a few months, but do understand alot about them.

 

The head of your bow keeps your hairs "permanently" attached to the bow at the tip. When you get your bow hairs wet, any soap type formula used for cleaning can lubricate the hairs folded or wrapped under the head. It can cause them to give just a little. The soapy water/liquid will seep up the hairs in a capillary motion. once there, it starts to do it damage. Any liquid not exclusively dried will be a disaster in waiting when you start to tighten the frog. The, now lubricated, hairs will pull slightyly out of the head. You will or at least can cause your bow to not gain enough tension due to the now exteneded length of the hairs.

When bow hair is inserted into the tip or frog end's of the bow, a fine wire is wrapped extremely tight around the end of the hair's. The end's are inserted into the hole, a wooden wedge is forced into that hole, if properly done, it is next to impossible for any hair to slip out, even IF there is any lubricant that remain's. Any change in bow hair length is due to temperature and humidity, not unrinsed soap. 

Also, any soap not cleaned from the hairs, the frog or the head will become tacky with even ambient room moisture. This will then become a magnet for dirt, oils, and other dust. It can cause your bow hairs to not transfer sound, deaden sound and even make your playing scratchy. In the long run, this foreign matter will also decrease the life of your bow hairs from the additional friction. The debris will prevent even coating of rosin and can in fact give your hairs "dead" spots on your bow stroke.  This is why the hair has to be completely rinsed, and dried.

 

Horse hair burns at about  450 degrees (almost the same temperature as paper). So the chance a hair dryer will damage it is unlikely unless you leave it on the same spot for several minutes. Its not to say heating the hair will not damage it for playing, I'm just saying to start it to burn. The thing I'd be concerned with is the metal in the frog or the lubrication on the eyelet/screw or the block holding the hairs in the bow's head.  One need's to use common sense when using a heat gun or hair dryer. You hold the heat source far enough away so as not to take a chance of burning the hair. I'm quite sure a hair dryer doesn't get hot enough for that, otherwise there would be a lot of women running around with their hair ablaze or bald.

 

I would say to not use any detergent at all. The lemon oil might be advisable, but I don't think it will cut the build up rosin from the hairs. I have my original bow, yes filled with all sorts of great soapy mixtures (and missing many hairs from abuse). I'll try the Alcohol treatment on it. I just put it in my case as an emergency bow hoping I dont need it EVER. Now, I have an opportunity to use it... if nothing more then a test subject.  Shampoo is especially formulated for hair. Hard water will damage hair more than will the shampoo being used. The alcohol cut's the rosin, the shampoo washes the out remaining alcohol and the lemon water rinse condition's the hair. Perhap's you don't know this, but keeping your bow in the violin case for extended period's of time will do more damage than any amount of cleaning/washing. Bow bugs attack the hair's and eat the hair.

Take 1 for the team!!! thumbs-up

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RosinedUp

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Fiddlestix said 

The alcohol cut's the rosin, the shampoo washes the out remaining alcohol and the lemon water rinse condition's the hair.

 

Common alcohols (methyl, ethyl, isopropyl) are very soluble in water.  Shampoo is not going to remove alcohol better than water does.  Besides that, alcohol is volatile and will evaporate after some time.  It will evaporate fast than water does.  I don't know everything, but I see no reason to use any detergent or water.

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Tyberius
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Very good points Fiddlestix. My concern on the head was the wire and the "wedge/peg. When moisture, more like a cascade of soapy water, sits there i have no idea how much water will be abosorbed into the bow itself, the block or the wedge. none if synthetic. If you get it wet enough and start adding agents, detergents and the like, even stainless steel will oxidize. I didn't want to start a bow building class here, although I would love to take one.

 

As for rinsing and drying, most people are not going to get the detergent/soap rinsed from the tip/head. They either do not know how to remove the tip and really, wont know what to do with the head components or proper reassembly and hair alignment if they did. a build up of goo will start forming at the winding at each "cleaning" with soapy mixtures.

 

The hair dryer can cause damage to hair. Hair will start to singe. The smell of hair from most womens hair drier is just that. singeing hair. A standard up to 2000w hair drier can get upwards of 140 degrees before shutoff. prolonged exposure at this tempurature will cause folic damage and hair will become brittle

 

Shampoo doesn't wash out alcohol. Alcohol evaporates or becomes absorbed by the water. The alcohol molecuels will actully ride between the water molecules due to element size. Shampoo may cut grease and lubricate debris loose, but it does nothing effective to the alcohol content of your trials.

 

I was unaware of the storing of the bow. Do you have any idea what is considered long term storage? weeks, months, years? Where did that source come from, I'd love to read about it.

 

**** found a source... Great infromation  *****

http://www.johnsonstring.com/B.....%20Bug.htm

 

Thanx for the heads up on that Fiddlestix smile

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

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Fiddlestix
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x_Tyberius_x said
Very good points Fiddlestix. My concern on the head was the wire and the "wedge/peg. When moisture, more like a cascade of soapy water, sits there i have no idea how much water will be abosorbed into the bow itself, the block or the wedge. none if synthetic. If you get it wet enough and start adding agents, detergents and the like, even stainless steel will oxidize. I didn't want to start a bow building class here, although I would love to take one.   You don't have a cascade of sud's, this isn't a car wash ya know. You won't mix the soap to a lather, just enough that you know there is shampoo in the water. You don't take the end's out of the tip or frog and you don't submerge the tip or frog in the water. When you have the hair coiled and submerged in the soapy water use a soft brush to dab the hair's near the tip and frog.

As for rinsing and drying, most people are not going to get the detergent/soap rinsed from the tip/head. They either do not know how to remove the tip and really, wont know what to do with the head components or proper reassembly and hair alignment if they did. a build up of goo will start forming at the winding at each "cleaning" with soapy mixtures.  I am assuming (most) you are including yourself here. You don't remove any hair from the tip or frog when you do this, so there's nothing to realign, no peg's to put in. 

The hair dryer can cause damage to hair. Hair will start to singe. The smell of hair from most womens hair drier is just that. singeing hair. A standard up to 2000w hair drier can get upwards of 140 degrees before shutoff. prolonged exposure at this tempurature will cause folic damage and hair will become brittle.  C'mon, you have to use some common sense when you do this. Hold the hair dryer about 12 to 14 inche's away, you're blowing luke warm air on it now. Of course you'll singe the hair if you go at it like a mad man. I don't use a woman's hair/blow dryer, I use a commercial grade heat gun, put's out a lot more wattage and heat then your standard blow dryer. 

Shampoo doesn't wash out alcohol. Alcohol evaporates or becomes absorbed by the water. The alcohol molecuels will actully ride between the water molecules due to element size. Shampoo may cut grease and lubricate debris loose, but it does nothing effective to the alcohol content of your trials.  Shampoo will wash the hair after the alcohol is dry, which is only a matter of a few minute's, alcohol dries out the hair and shampoo condition's the bow hair after the alcohol bath, just like it does human hair.  

I was unaware of the storing of the bow. Do you have any idea what is considered long term storage? weeks, months, years? Where did that source come from, I'd love to read about it.  The source came from personal experience, two bow's of mine were missing the hair, most of it gone completely and the rest was all over the inside of the case. Probable time was more than a year, but I think the bug's are in there and can work on the hair's everytime the bow is put in the case. My luthier told me is was nothing more than "carpet mite's", in the case. You can't see them but, they are there.  

**** found a source... Great infromation  *****

http://www.johnsonstring.com/B.....%20Bug.htm

 

Thanx for the heads up on that Fiddlestix smile

Cleaning bow hair isn't a big deal if you use some brain matter to do it. I clean all my bow's at least every 3 month's. They seem to play and sound better. Some people prefer to spend the money to rehair, their choice. Actually some people, like Fiddlerman has to, the way he plays. wink

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Siarl Bychan
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Good Lord. I'm going to add to this. Might as well. I do so enjoy the illustrated manual on cleaning bow hair. I think that it's interesting information how horse people, or those who own horses, keep their horses manes and tails clean. However, horses tails and manes also don't usually come in heavy contact with pine resin. So, I could be wrong, but using shampoos and conditioners are for a totally different reason than what bows need in order to keep them clean. Now I'm only a beginner fiddler so I'm no expert by any stretch but I do have a background in clothing design and textiles. In order to clean something you have to take into consideration the object to be cleaned as well as what it is you are attempting to remove. In the case of hair, which is what bow hair is, most of the time, alcohol, as illustrated by Fiddlestix, is the best way to remove resin. An oil based product is also good but not as fast as the alcohol method. Also remember that an oil based product will breakdown anything that is manufactured with a petroleum base.  On synthetic bow hair, again, alcohol is probably your best friend. Other chemicals such as nail polish remover or anything else will deteriorate nylon and other synthetics. Again, it's back to the alcohol. Others may have other opinions and this is just mine.

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Fiddlestix
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Fiddlestix said
Picture-097.jpgImage EnlargerPicture-098.jpgImage EnlargerPicture-099.jpgImage EnlargerI have posted two other time's on how to clean bow hair's, the simplest and fastest way.

Pour about 3/4 to 1" of "Isopropyl" rubbing alcohol in a bowl. Wind up the bow hair's, submerge them in the alcohol. Use a soft brush to thoroughly dab the hair's.  Remove from the alcohol, place on paper towel, cover with another paper towl, dab dry. Remove from the towel's and use a blow / hair dryer to finish the drying process. Hold the end of the bow stick up in the air and rest the frog on a table to seperate the hair's. Finish drying the hair then replace the frog in the slot and screw in the frog bolt. Before replacing the frog bolt, clean the underside of the bow stick to remove any rosin buildup. DO NOT wipe it with the alcohol rag, use a clean dry towel. Rosin buildup on the bow stick can dull the sound.

You won't have to wipe each individual hair with an alcohol rag

I can clean my four bow's in less than a hour.

These pic's are kinda fuzzy, cell phone pic's.done

 

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Fiddlestix
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This is a four year old topic, but I thought I'd a link I just happened to run across this morning.

I think there are probably newbies here who ask themselves this question. The cleaning of bow hair in this article is pretty much the way I do it.

There are also other great tips on bow care.

http://www.corilon.com/shop/en.....ips.html#5

 

Ken.

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