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Tuning w/o a fine tuner
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rotex13
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December 27, 2011 - 4:23 am
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I recently bought a new violin, but the tailpiece is only having a one finetuner on the E string and it makes G-D-A hard to tune, how do pros can tune this? cos me? can't :/

 

tuning this for an hour but still... frownfacepalm

 

thnx coffee1

 

PS Im using steel core btw(I'm hoping that I can buy synthetic core asap) 

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Daniel
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December 27, 2011 - 6:39 am
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rotex13 said

I recently bought a new violin, but the tailpiece is only having a one finetuner on the E string and it makes G-D-A hard to tune, how do pros can tune this? cos me? can't :/

 

tuning this for an hour but still... frownfacepalm

 

thnx coffee1

 

PS Im using steel core btw(I'm hoping that I can buy synthetic core asap) 

 

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Dayumm, that's tough. And I suppose you don't have a digital tuner? (if you did, I'd suggest SLOWLY and putting a lot of effort to move the pegs a little at a time when you're close to the tune) but without, I'd have a hard time tuning to exactly the right tone.

Short-term Goal:

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Oliver
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December 27, 2011 - 10:09 am
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I have seen several pros do this....they detune down and then retune up as if it is easier to get the right note coming from the bottom.  They either are using fifths or have perfect pitch.

Tuning with ill fitting pegs is almost mission impossible which is one reason for the popularity of the Wittner 4-position fine tuner tailpieces (and chromatic tuners for us amateurs!)

coffee2

PS I have only owned one violin out of maybe 5 that had "great" pegs that I could manage with only a fine tuner on the "E".

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 27, 2011 - 11:56 am
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Believe it or not it is VERY difficult to tune steel strings without fine tuners. The steel strings are not flexible and because of that the fine tuner is almost essential, especially for solid steel core.

With synthetic core strings the string stretches enough while you are tightening that you can move the peg much more with less pitch differences.

You have four choices. 1) Buy synthetic core strings. 2) Buy three loose tuners and put them on. 3) Buy a tail-piece with built in tuners. 4) Learn to turn those pegs with extreme fractional movements. Usually back and forth over or unders shooting just slightly.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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rotex13
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December 27, 2011 - 8:26 pm
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@Daniel, I have one, I can't tune w/o any digital tuner lol, my ear is not that talented  xD. 

FM is ryt, it's extremely difficult to tune Steel Core with pegs. What I've done is, I used my old violin's tail piece but I'm not sure if that tailpiece will make any difference in sound because it's made of metal. 

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Fiddlerman
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December 27, 2011 - 11:02 pm
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It'll be fine. Good move. I'll send you some used strings sometime to put on your other violin with the tailpiece that doesn't have fine tuners.

exactly

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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rotex13
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Fiddlerman said

It'll be fine. Good move. I'll send you some used strings sometime to put on your other violin with the tailpiece that doesn't have fine tuners.

exactly

Oh thanks! 🙂

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Svento
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January 19, 2012 - 5:51 am
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Metal tailpiece is rock'n'roll, carbon fibre is the future. Ebony is just silly.

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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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January 19, 2012 - 3:32 pm
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I didn't really care WHAT tailpieces on my violin made of duncecap... Should i ?

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Fiddlerman
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January 19, 2012 - 6:09 pm
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No Mad. Don't worry about it. Wood is classy though.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mad_Wed
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OK then, thanks! =)

just playing violin, no worries thumbs-up

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myguitarnow
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I like my wood too! 😉

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Fiddlerman
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January 20, 2012 - 8:29 pm
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No comment.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Aleive
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Fiddlerman said

Believe it or not it is VERY difficult to tune steel strings without fine tuners. The steel strings are not flexible and because of that the fine tuner is almost essential, especially for solid steel core.

With synthetic core strings the string stretches enough while you are tightening that you can move the peg much more with less pitch differences.

You have four choices. 1) Buy synthetic core strings. 2) Buy three loose tuners and put them on. 3) Buy a tail-piece with built in tuners. 4) Learn to turn those pegs with extreme fractional movements. Usually back and forth over or unders shooting just slightly.

*blushes* If you have owned an impossible el-guitar for your whole life it is surprisingly simple. Though it is all about technique. As you undoubtedly know 😛

 

To everyone else:

Tune it up to somewhere just underneath where you want to be, and apply just so much pressure it does not move more. Ploink the string and listen. Then you should be able to apply just a little more force, then easing up the fraction of a second the peg starts moving, and move towards perfection. It takes a bit of practice. But once you get the timing on easing up, you're golden. You ease up because you do not want to go too far. But it is all about feeling the spot^^

Sorry for the sucky explanation. My mind works in mysterious patterns. And I am NOT in any way a good tutor 😛 Nor am I qualified. I am simply sharing my logic and trick behind it. :3

"Art, as far as it is able, follows nature, as a pupil imitates his master; thus your art must be, as it were, God's grandchild."

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Kevin M.
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January 23, 2012 - 7:30 pm
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Oh well. Sitting here reading this post I suddenly heard a pop and a twang. My D string just gave up it's life.  It was kind of expected but I didn't want to change the strings until my new pegs come. I want to change them and the tailpiece then fit a new bridge and adjust the sound post.  The post is a little too tight and the sound from the E and A are muted while the D and G are robust.  I'll just have to play with the electric for awhile and drive everyone in the house crazy.

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Aleive
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January 23, 2012 - 7:37 pm
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Kevin M. said

Oh well. Sitting here reading this post I suddenly heard a pop and a twang. My D string just gave up it's life.  It was kind of expected but I didn't want to change the strings until my new pegs come. I want to change them and the tailpiece then fit a new bridge and adjust the sound post.  The post is a little too tight and the sound from the E and A are muted while the D and G are robust.  I'll just have to play with the electric for awhile and drive everyone in the house crazy.

Sound plan! Literally! *giggles*

"Art, as far as it is able, follows nature, as a pupil imitates his master; thus your art must be, as it were, God's grandchild."

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Mustang
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Fiddlerman said

Believe it or not it is VERY difficult to tune steel strings without fine tuners. The steel strings are not flexible and because of that the fine tuner is almost essential, especially for solid steel core.

With synthetic core strings the string stretches enough while you are tightening that you can move the peg much more with less pitch differences.

You have four choices. 1) Buy synthetic core strings. 2) Buy three loose tuners and put them on. 3) Buy a tail-piece with built in tuners. 4) Learn to turn those pegs with extreme fractional movements. Usually back and forth over or unders shooting just slightly.

I have a heck of a time tuning with Zyex strings. I actually found Helicore strings a lot easier to tune on my violin that doesn't have fine tuners. duncecap

The way my teacher said how to tune a violin without fine tuners was to get the string real close to the pitch with the peg, then if it was a little sharp you stretch out the string. Just pull it a little, not a lot. If it was a little flat you push the string above the fingerboard in the pegbox... correct me if that is the wrong way to do it. dazed

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Aleive
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January 23, 2012 - 8:14 pm
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Mustang said

Fiddlerman said

Believe it or not it is VERY difficult to tune steel strings without fine tuners. The steel strings are not flexible and because of that the fine tuner is almost essential, especially for solid steel core.

With synthetic core strings the string stretches enough while you are tightening that you can move the peg much more with less pitch differences.

You have four choices. 1) Buy synthetic core strings. 2) Buy three loose tuners and put them on. 3) Buy a tail-piece with built in tuners. 4) Learn to turn those pegs with extreme fractional movements. Usually back and forth over or unders shooting just slightly.

I have a heck of a time tuning with Zyex strings. I actually found Helicore strings a lot easier to tune on my violin that doesn't have fine tuners. duncecap

The way my teacher said how to tune a violin without fine tuners was to get the string real close to the pitch with the peg, then if it was a little sharp you stretch out the string. Just pull it a little, not a lot. If it was a little flat you push the string above the fingerboard in the pegbox... correct me if that is the wrong way to do it. dazed

The pulling works. However it is kind of a general rule with string instruments that if you just do the pushing shortcut it will just go back to be out of tune once you start playing  :3

"Art, as far as it is able, follows nature, as a pupil imitates his master; thus your art must be, as it were, God's grandchild."

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Fiddlerman
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January 23, 2012 - 11:13 pm
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Generally it is better to stop the tuning coming from below rather than from above. In other words, when there is the most tension. Tune up to the note till is is right and stop, if you miss, back off a little and tune up again. Repeat it as many times as necessary to get it perfect.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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springer
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Question for FM. Have you ever checked your tuning with an electronic tuner to see how close to exact you are. i.e. how many Hz off you are from the frequency? coffee

 

This would be an interesting piece of info.

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