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What glue to use to attach fingerboard?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes) 
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PopFiddle
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November 4, 2014 - 3:42 pm
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The fingerboard on my CVN-200 is loose at the bottom towards the bridge.  I'd like to slip a little glue in there and clamp it tight to secure it again.

What sort of glue should I use for that?  Is white glue OK?  

I would use padded clamps to protect my fingerboard and neck?

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Tyberius
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November 4, 2014 - 4:38 pm
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The only type of glue to ever us is Animal hide glue. its a bit tricky to work with at first, but is not overly intensive.

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

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PopFiddle
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November 4, 2014 - 5:24 pm
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Tyberius said
The only type of glue to ever us is Animal hide glue. its a bit tricky to work with at first, but is not overly intensive.

Can you recommend a place to get it?  What is the difference between "animal hide" glue and white glue?  Isn't white glue also an animal source?

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Tyberius
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November 4, 2014 - 6:15 pm
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White glue will bond to the wood fibers. It is essentially a permanent glue. It can get brittle over time. Hide Glue is in granular form. Its mixed with water to a specific temperature and used while hot. It bonds the surface of the 2 woods. The Key factor on furniture or and instrument. You can repair the item or move the item after the glue cures.

Most commercial glues (white craft glues included) are all chemical based. They no longer use animal parts pieces or bits ... for the most part.

The hide glue is rated in shear strength. The amount of force required to break the bond. Typically 192g is standard on most instruments. do an Ebay search for hide glue.  Titebond offers a premixed hide glue, but I do not believe they rate the strength. It also has not been around long enough to see if it will actually hold fast with time.

If the package of granules does not list the strength, stay clear of it. it more then likely is rejected medium. It would also be good to note, the higher strength does not mean a better use. It, like white glue, will start to adhere to the fibers and can cause damage to the violin if it requires adjusting or replacement of the part.

1/4 pound will fill a small (VERY dry and clean) Elmers glue bottle. It also makes for a nice dispenser. The glue has a shelf life of about a year in crystal form but only if kept cool-ish dry. Once mixed, you have a week to 21 days on the top side. The more you reheat it, the more it breaks down and loses its bonding ability.

If you mix the granules right in the Elmers squeeze bottle, you can heat it in a temperature monitored (read that as using a thermometer) sauce pan full of water. Put a folded wash cloth in the bottom of the pan so you don't over heat or melt the plastic bottle.

Everything must be clean and somewhat "sterile". Bacteria can form in the glue if you do not heat it properly or allowed to stabilize at the proper temp. A clean environment, clean utensils and boiled or sterile water is what are required.

I can give you more pointers and advice if you go this route. It sounds really complicated, but its not. heat the water in the bottle, drop in the crystals, stir until all crystal are saturated, then maintain a slow rise of heat.

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

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Fiddlerman
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November 4, 2014 - 6:44 pm
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Tyberius is right. Do not use white glue as this is too permanent. One must be able to remove the fingerboard if necessary.

http://www.amazon.com/Hide-Glu.....words=hide glue

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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PopFiddle
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November 6, 2014 - 2:32 pm
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Fiddlerman said
Tyberius is right. Do not use white glue as this is too permanent. One must be able to remove the fingerboard if necessary.

OK, thanks all for your responses.  I see the difference, no white glue.

I think FM sees what I am up against.  The fingerboard isn't all the way off, it's just coming off, and I hoped to just squeeze a little glue in where it is cracked to fix it.  But heated glue is bound to cool off before I can work it into the crack.  So I should just pull the fingerboard the rest of the way off and re-glue the whole thing where I am able to spread heated glue over the entire surface to be bonded and clamp it together before it cools.

This is extra, but the fingerboard I have now is a maple board painted black.  What kind of job is it to replace it with something better?  Keep in mind this is a CVN-200 that doesn't really justify too much of an investment.

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OldOgre
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November 6, 2014 - 3:33 pm
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IMHO oppinion I would take the figureboard off and clean the old glue off the neck and bottom of the fingerboard and then reglue.

With violins there is no fretting over the music.

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Fiddlerman
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November 6, 2014 - 3:43 pm
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You can actually work hide glue in without taking it completely off. Thin out the glue with a little bit of water, apply the glue and lift the part that is loose up and down and the glue should work itself in.
To remove the fingerboard, you might want to heat the fingerboard with an iron to make it release better without any damage to the wood beneath.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Raywells
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November 6, 2014 - 5:05 pm
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A convenient source of prepared hide glue is the glue advertised at this web site. http://www.oldbrownglue.com/

I have used this glue on 2 tops off repairs of violins. I put the bottle into a saucepan of water and using a meat thermometer bring its temp to 120 degrees. then I brush the glue on with a paint brush. if you want to thin the glue to try and reglue the FB without removal, premoisten the brush in the water in the saucepan then dip into the glue bottle. apply carefully and have a damp rag to clean up extra glue quickly.

Good Luck

Octave Ray

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cdennyb
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November 6, 2014 - 7:51 pm
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^^^^^What he said^^^^

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"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Fiddlerman
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November 6, 2014 - 8:58 pm
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Good point Ray. I agree. The liquid hide glue seems to work very well. Much easier to use. Still better to heat it and thin it out to work into the groves and cracks.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Tyberius
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November 7, 2014 - 3:15 am
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Also note, with whatever form of the hide glue you use, the working time is limited. If it starts to cool, it gets a film on it that will prevent a really good adhesion.

FM is right, you do not have to remove it completely. The liquid glue will seep under and re-adhere to the older glue and the wooden parts. Keep a warm damp (clean) rag handy to wipe the glue that squeezes out after its clamped. Be careful when wiping it up, you can damage the finish while wiping up the glue.

As for your question, the glue is not discriminatory. It will bond almost any wood effectively. It also likes rags, paper towels, pet hair, lint, and blue jeans. wink

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

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Raywells
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November 7, 2014 - 8:23 pm
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The hits just keep on coming. I bought elastic bands from Stew Mac ($20) for clamping irregular shaped items, in my case an Italian Bowl Back mandolin. A LESS expensive solution to clamp a violin FB would be to use Elmers Clamp Tape see this site http://elmers.com/product/detail/E8075  read their add to see why this less expensive solution might help secure your FB.

Octave Ray

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Fiddlestix
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November 7, 2014 - 8:48 pm
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@Raywells: There's also "fish" glue. 

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Fiddlerman
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November 8, 2014 - 12:27 pm
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I like the elastic bands for fingerboards.

What works well is to take long rubber bands and cut them. Rap them tight till you don't have much of the ends left and either tuck the last end under any wrap or tie the first end and last end together. You can do this with a bunch of rubber bands.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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