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Bach and the Partitas / Sonatas
A thread to discover and talk about Bach
Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 (21 votes) 
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coolpinkone
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October 10, 2014 - 1:01 pm
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I thought it would be nice to post and talk about Bach Partitas and Sonatas.

To begin, here is a link to what I am talking about.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....%28Bach%29

I would be a nice thread to find our favorites and post and compare and discuss.

Cheers... and I'll be Bach.... ( groanfacepalm)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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ozmous
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October 10, 2014 - 5:37 pm
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For the Chaconne, I always listen to Heifetz's version, I've read that it's his favourite piece(though not so perfect, considering it's just the 1st take and his age)(note: the Chaccone is my most favourite violin piece as well, yup not any of Paganini's, though they come in second place :P ):

another one is from Milstein(very beautiful):

 

and for the other Partitas, I listen to Perlman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....VE8Jy_pPfc

cheers! - ⁰ℨ

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coolpinkone
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October 10, 2014 - 5:58 pm
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I love these @ozmous ... Enjoying them all as I do chores.  Thanks for posting.

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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Chinafiddler
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October 10, 2014 - 7:45 pm
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Now here's an interesting topic!

For many years I have listened to so many recording of these fabulous pieces of music, and I have read reviews written by many so called experts saying ridiculous things particularly about Heifetz's recording!

Well enough of that, so what do I think, well I am no expert critic but I have both the recordings of Heifetz and Milstein (both Auer students) and they are both wonderful.

The Milstein recording is maybe a little more layed-back than the Heifetz one but in many ways similar in its brilliance of execution.

Can I suggest though that you try to listen to the recordings of another child prodigy, not so well known maybe because he chose to teach as well as perform, but there are still many recordings out there that are fabulous to listen to, this being Aaron Rosand.

This is what the Strad Magazine said about him: 

According to Strad magazine, Rosand's technique is "undiminished by the passing years, interpretations honed to perfection by a lifetime of performances. He has always had that ability to make music sound fresh and spontaneous, his tone shaded with a flexible vibrato ideal for Romantic music."

Rosand was in part taught by Efrem Kimbalist, who was a student of Leopold Auer's so he is from the same background as Mr.H & Mr.M interestingly.

If you can find his recordings they are wonderful to listen to because of the purity with which he performs them coupled with a most beautiful sound!

He performs this wonderful music on what was his beautiful Guarnerius Del Gesu of 1741 the 'Kochanski'.

I say 'was' because later he sold it to a Russian billionaire for $10,000,000 of which he donated $1.5 million to the Curtis Institute.

Not bad ah!

 

Listen and enjoy!

 

Regards

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coolpinkone
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October 10, 2014 - 9:04 pm
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Aaron Rosand - Bach Chaconne

 

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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coolpinkone
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October 10, 2014 - 9:08 pm
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And here is what cause me to love Bach for violin....meaning I knew nothing of Bach... and I heard this and said.. what is that song? and who is playing it... and a love of violin was built. :)

Hilary Hahn -

Yes..I think she is the best thing since sliced bread. :)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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ozmous
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October 10, 2014 - 9:18 pm
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For the Rosand vid; Oh ya! that is wonderful! the violin really showed it's sound there, that kind of sound is what I like, I dunno if it's just the violin, or the player, maybe both, but it really does sound fantastic! One thing I noticed that I don't like is that the notes are "chopped up" during staccatos, but over all, it's awesome.

for the Hahn vid, ah,that's about perfect and is very deep, the sound catches my soul :) .

cheers! - ⁰ℨ

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suresh
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October 10, 2014 - 10:17 pm
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Henryk Szeryng :  Oh! you are talking about Bach.  Then let me be in.

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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Chinafiddler
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October 10, 2014 - 11:18 pm
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ozmous said
For the Rosand vid; Oh ya! that is wonderful! the violin really showed it's sound there, that kind of sound is what I like, I dunno if it's just the violin, or the player, maybe both, but it really does sound fantastic! One thing I noticed that I don't like is that the notes are "chopped up" during staccatos, but over all, it's awesome.

for the Hahn vid, ah,that's about perfect and is very deep, the sound catches my soul :) .

Hi ozmous,

Well what can I say!

As to your comment about the 'chopped up staccatos, well this is what staccato bowing is all about, and I am pretty sure that Mr. Rosand performs them text book, him being a renowned world class fiddle player in the same league as Heifetz and Milstein!

As to the sound and who is responsible well it is in part due to his beautiful violin, but this guy could make a $10 dollar violin sing, so it is mostly down to the person drawing the bow and placing the fingers.

As a matter interest to me, how long have you been playing/learning the violin ozmous?violin-studentthumbs-up

 

Regards

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coolpinkone
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October 10, 2014 - 11:27 pm
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@suresh 

That performance stimulated me to the core... Made my bones ache!  Thank you it was very beautiful... The dynamics were magnificent..

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cdennyb
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October 10, 2014 - 11:34 pm
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Even if Rosand did screw up, and he very possibly could have, how would anyone here on this beginner site even be able to notice?

I don't believe anyone on here is qualified to critique any player like that, and perhaps Pierre would have a "no comment" comment as one pro to another goes.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Chinafiddler
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October 11, 2014 - 1:14 am
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cdennyb said
Even if Rosand did screw up, and he very possibly could have, how would anyone here on this beginner site even be able to notice?

I don't believe anyone on here is qualified to critique any player like that, and perhaps Pierre would have a "no comment" comment as one pro to another goes.

I agree entirely!

Besides if you are listening to a recording(CD) or watching a DVD(Video) it is highly unlikely that a stuff-up would have been laid down!

Somebody of Rosand's stature has a very high reputation to protect so do you really think he would allow anyone to listen to bad fiddle!

Read what the New York Times and Gramophone magazine had to say about him:

 

Among the world's outstanding violinists is Aaron Rosand, whose masterful playing has captivated audiences and critics throughout the world. A true violinist's violinist and "one of the great living exponents of Romantic violin music," according to the New York Times, Rosand has made "some of the greatest recordings of this century" (Gramophone Magazine); recordings lauded by Strad magazine as "synonymous with immaculate technical achievement, beautiful multi-coloured tonal luster, artful phrasing, stylistic elan, and a probing musical intellect."

Enough said I think.

 

Regards

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ozmous
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October 11, 2014 - 3:02 am
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What I meant by "chopped up" staccato is it's a slower staccato, it's not bad(of course), I just(personally) don't like it, and of course, everyone has preferences.

oh btw, about 2 years :)

cheers! - ⁰ℨ

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Chinafiddler
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ozmous said
What I meant by "chopped up" staccato is it's a slower staccato, it's not bad(of course), I just(personally) don't like it, and of course, everyone has preferences.

oh btw, about 2 years :)

'It's not bad!'

Are you being serious?

Can you play the Chaconne?

High praise coming from someone with two years experience of playing!

My friend you really are not in a position to make this kind of judgement! 

Maybe you should have a try at playing some of Bach's works for unaccompanied violin and then you would fully appreciate the complexities.

I myself have worked very hard over the years to be able to reach a standard where I am able to fully appreciate this music and learn some of it. 

Being in this position fills me with admiration and reverence for any fiddle player that can perform such works at will and from memory!

Did you read my post above, where the New York times said the following and note the bolded underlined part:

Among the world's outstanding violinists is Aaron Rosand, whose masterful playing has captivated audiences and critics throughout the world. 

Even people paid to make critical appraisals cannot criticize him, but it would seem that you can.

I myself have been studying and playing the violin for best past of 39 years and I wouldn't have the temerity to say what you have said about this Titan of the violin world!

Regards

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coolpinkone
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@ozmous ... I fully respect your opinion and personal preference.   I am glad and thankful for your insight. I also know you have played some unaccompanied Bach.   Please continue to discuss, praise or critique your preferences.  This is all part of music appreciation discussion.  We should feel free to discuss our preferences.   We are all qualified and worthy to discuss this.  How long we have been playing does not discredit our opinions or ability to talk about what we like or dislike. 

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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suresh
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October 11, 2014 - 11:37 am
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Zino Francescatti : Bach Chaconne.

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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suresh
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Christian Ferras : Bach Chaconne

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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suresh
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Yehudi Menuhin

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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suresh
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If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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cdennyb
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October 11, 2014 - 11:54 am
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Until I hear someone play, I don't have much value to their opinion. A music student that spends their time on Google can amass a lot of knowledge and sound very "professional" but when it comes time to put up or shut up, they fail miserably. Google has allowed everyone to become a "cut & paste" professional in just about every subject on the planet.

They can tell me all about how long they've played but the true masters of the violin, whether they be teachers or performing pros, don't come to sites like this to spread their wisdom and knowledge. The exception would be Pierre but he's doing this to forward his niche business and probably gets a lot of laughs and chuckles reading the posts of all the "arm chair quarterbacks and virtuosos" on here.

In the beginning I remember our friend and fellow fiddler Oz, playing a very complicated piece of Bach and doing quite well for someone who had no professional instruction, no teacher standing there with a ruler to smack him on the knuckles when something was not done precisely correct. For a student of two years to commend a professional like he did shows me that the student or beginner has developed his ability to recognize what it takes to sound good, personal preferences exempted. I have those preferences as well and if I say he sounds ok, it does not mean I think he's a poor player. He is obviously a professional and only another professional would be able to detect any flaw in his playing. It just means that his playing is not something I would prefer to listen to or emulate.

@CF I thought you started at age 21, then mentioned you had only recently picked it back up again about 10 yrs ago due to "business and career" ventures. I think as difficult to play as the violin is, or to play well, taking that much time off would not qualify you to say you've played the better part of 39 yrs., in fact you would be considered a relatively new player or classed as intermediate. If I miss a few days, I can certainly tell the difference, hell... years away from it would put me back on square one. I often wonder if staying away for a few years has that great of an effect on the abilities? I bet it does.

I would like to hear what you have to bring to the table, although without the ability to use YouTube, a recording of anyone could be presented and I would have no way to either confirm or deny that it was actually you playing, no offense intended. I looked up your YouTube channel and found the last entry to be just over a year ago without a single video or recording. One reference to the "greatest violin teacher in London" and a "terrorist training" video or two of questionable content. 

Does the name Steve Redrobe ring a bell... (?) he was the personal assistant for Erik Friedman and a very accomplished violinist himself. He manages a very nice web site called the "String Academy" for professional players. I bet you would fit right in over there as you have a very large wealth of historical knowledge and Steve lives in London currently. He also has numerous YouTube performances.

I know you left to travel to China then but the account was open for a few months and if I had the fantastic ability to teach and play like you do, I would've posted several videos in that amount of time of either myself playing as an instructional assistant to my students or to just preserve them for the future as my kids would like that when I was departed. Just sayin'.

Don't go ballistic, this is not a personal attack but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from. I trust, but I also like to verify, just the nature of being a retired Mechanical Design Engineer.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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