FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Celtic Styles
Where to begin?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes) 
Avatar
Killerkhezu
Princeton, MN
Member
Members
November 16, 2012 - 1:17 pm
Member Since: November 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 23
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My main goal for the Violin is to play Celtic/Irish/ Folksy type music do you know know what to start looking at or practicing to grow and ear from that genre on music?

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
November 16, 2012 - 2:24 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1698
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have the same goals and am keen to see ppls responses here.

At the moment I just trawl through YouTube but with very little structure to my practicing

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 16, 2012 - 4:40 pm
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Here's some ideas...

Irish sound --
* Eileen Ivers
* Kevin Burke
* Matt Cranitch

Even within the Irish sound, there is a difference in their styles.

Matt Cranitch has a book and CD that I like a LOT. He breaks things down nice and slow and all the CD tracks are easy to play along with. Easy to follow detail on ornamentation, rhythm and bowing tips and tricks. IMHO, he may not be the "best player in the universe", but he is a good writer and explainer/breakerdowner/demonstrator of style etc. Worth getting it spiral bound - and all the songs seem to come up in jams.

Kevin Burke's DVD is pretty good - but maybe easier to follow if you're already a fiddler - not sure - but I found his bowing style difficult for a beginner to execute (could be I just suck). He has youtube videos of the lessons under the label Homespun, so you can see for yourself.

** And to include a Scottish sound in the list:

Fiona Cuthill of the Glasgow Fiddle Workshop has demonstration the Scottish standard pieces. Youtube "Fiona's fiddle" brings up her teaching playlist.

Scottish versus Irish: as it was explained to me working with a Scottish player, I had to put more "groove" in my jigs and really stick it on the backbeat. I think of it as Matt Cranitch (smoother, flowier) versus Fiona Cuthill (groove, back beat).

Enjoy!!!

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
November 16, 2012 - 4:54 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1698
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Great response Tamlin, mucho thanko!

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

Avatar
KindaScratchy
Massachusetts
November 16, 2012 - 8:19 pm
Member Since: March 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 1651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've found that many American Colonial era songs, most of which have Celtic and Scottish origins and styles (jigs, reels, strathspeys, etc.), are reasonably easy to play...with a little work. I see them as a stepping stone to more difficult contemporary Irish music.

I've got this book and really like it:

http://www.ballindalloch-press.....songs.html

And I've got this CD. I've been able to find free sheet music on-line for several of the pieces and are working on them now.

http://www.amazon.com/Jefferso.....B0041135F6

Hope that helps!

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

Avatar
wanabfidler
Buffalo NY
Advanced member
Members
November 16, 2012 - 9:56 pm
Member Since: October 20, 2012
Forum Posts: 65
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I too am a strong fan of this fiddling. But I thought irish/Scott was like the difference of a fiddle/violin thanks for clearing that up TheTownPants is one of my favorites I posted the best vid I could find in the irish page called best irish band this side of the pond but now I dunno maybe Scottish bagpipes-1254 o

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 17, 2012 - 3:10 pm
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

wanabfidler said

But I thought irish/Scott was like the difference of a fiddle/violin thanks for clearing that up bagpipes-1254 o

I always thought the difference between a fiddle and a violin was just two shots of whiskey... cheers

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

Avatar
Tyberius
Members

Regulars
November 17, 2012 - 3:31 pm
Member Since: November 8, 2012
Forum Posts: 555
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

tamlin said

wanabfidler said

But I thought irish/Scott was like the difference of a fiddle/violin thanks for clearing that up bagpipes-1254 o

I always thought the difference between a fiddle and a violin was just two shots of whiskey... cheers

 

Its not only the 2 shots of whiskey, its the kilt.

(not the best version, but it does have a fiddle in it) wink

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

Avatar
Killerkhezu
Princeton, MN
Member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 12:39 am
Member Since: November 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 23
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Does anyone know of the scales they use in Irish/Celtic music?

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 8:30 am
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Killerkhezu said

Does anyone know of the scales they use in Irish/Celtic music?

Seems to be mainly: G, D, A, C and their relative minors.

All my books teach it that way... although...

I would recommend at the outset, its worthwhile to think about F. There are some reels in F (D minor) that have a rich sound - played with rhythmic patterns on the G and D string. I wish somebody had told me early on to try out these reels in this key - because even though I was totally comfy playing in GDAC, when I went to try to learn reels in F/Dm on the low strings, I had to totally change the way I held my hand/fingering etc... and I could have started working on that early with scales and etudes with some time to build up some skill in that key.

Here is an example of a Scottish reel set played with the first ditty in F (Tamlin/Glasgow Reel) followed by Jenny's Chickens in A. I like the smoky sound of the F followed by the lively ending in A. Also, she really makes this piece "her own" with interesting bowing patterns and rhythmic variation.

feature=related

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2012 - 8:45 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Celtic music use's a 5 note scale per octave, called "pentatonic" scale, as opposed to 7 note's.

 

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
November 18, 2012 - 10:03 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Is that you playing in the above video tamlin? Tam Lin?
I'm guessing not since you speak of her in the third party tense but want to check just the same.

Nice style. I would love to know what is intended in the fast bow rhythm. Is it supposed to be like a tremolo or some kind of 32nd triplets that are not really up to speed. It makes for an interesting effect in any case.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Killerkhezu
Princeton, MN
Member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 11:01 am
Member Since: November 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 23
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

tamlin said

Killerkhezu said

Does anyone know of the scales they use in Irish/Celtic music?

Seems to be mainly: G, D, A, C and their relative minors.

All my books teach it that way... although...

I would recommend at the outset, its worthwhile to think about F. There are some reels in F (D minor) that have a rich sound - played with rhythmic patterns on the G and D string. I wish somebody had told me early on to try out these reels in this key - because even though I was totally comfy playing in GDAC, when I went to try to learn reels in F/Dm on the low strings, I had to totally change the way I held my hand/fingering etc... and I could have started working on that early with scales and etudes with some time to build up some skill in that key.

Here is an example of a Scottish reel set played with the first ditty in F (Tamlin/Glasgow Reel) followed by Jenny's Chickens in A. I like the smoky sound of the F followed by the lively ending in A. Also, she really makes this piece "her own" with interesting bowing patterns and rhythmic variation.

feature=related

so what are saying is that it's not just one particular scale that they use but they jump from a couple of diffent scales while playing a jig or reel, ect.

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 12:48 pm
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Yes! Like "parts" or "sections". One part in one key and the adjacent part in another key.

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

Avatar
Killerkhezu
Princeton, MN
Member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 1:19 pm
Member Since: November 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 23
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

That just made learning the style a bit harder for a complete beginner. Do you know of any video tutorials that explain the theory behind the Irish Celtic style? I'm a kenetic learner so I learn better by sight then reading.

Avatar
dionysia
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2012 - 1:31 pm
Member Since: January 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 657
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlerman said
Is that you playing in the above video tamlin? Tam Lin?
I'm guessing not since you speak of her in the third party tense but want to check just the same.

Nice style. I would love to know what is intended in the fast bow rhythm. Is it supposed to be like a tremolo or some kind of 32nd triplets that are not really up to speed. It makes for an interesting effect in any case.

 

Tam Lin is an old fairy tale that has inspired music, books etc. Here is some info about it:

http://www.tam-lin.org/intro.html

I am assuming the song in the vid was "Tam Lin"

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 7:08 pm
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Fiddlerman said
Is that you playing in the above video tamlin? Tam Lin?

Not quite me... I think of it as me in a couple years.

Fiddlerman said
Is it supposed to be like a tremolo or some kind of 32nd triplets that are not really up to speed. It makes for an interesting effect in any case.

Shared this with a performing Scottish fiddler here, and her first comment was "Wow, she got in a "barrel", referring to the those 32nd triplets. Its a fun and funky trick to learn. I LOVE it when Eileen Ivers styles perfect barrels in her more traditional works. (Yes, if Eileen plays it, I want to play it too, ha ha)

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 18, 2012 - 8:07 pm
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Killerkhezu said

That just made learning the style a bit harder for a complete beginner. Do you know of any video tutorials that explain the theory behind the Irish Celtic style? I'm a kenetic learner so I learn better by sight then reading.

Oh dear! Sorry about that. Meant to make it easier!

Here are two super visual educational channels on youtube: 1) Rex McGee 2) DuncanFig (search under the name, look for "Channel"). Even if its too fast - you can watch and listen and get "an ear" for what's going on. There are a bunch where they have "lesson" in the title and then go through a visual on all the fingerings. Sorry I don't have any of those handy to share - but they are out there. You could take the song titles from the playlists on either of these channels and probably find visual/tutorial style presentations of the same songs by searching on the song title with "lesson" in it. Hope this helps!!!!!!

Here's a tasty sample from Rex McGee:

list=PL991DA573E19ABF75&index=87&feature=plpp_video

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

Avatar
ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
November 18, 2012 - 9:12 pm
Member Since: October 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 550
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thank you, tamlin, for sharing these.

It's one of my favorite music genre, and some of the songs are amazing.

I only have one question that I was hesitated to ask, came up a number of years ago when I first heard this music playing.

As mentioned in earlier posts, it's using pentatonic scale but it sounded like non-tempered scale. In another word, there seems like maybe 2 notes in the scale being tuned about 15-20 cents different, intentionally, comparing to our tempered pitches.

Maybe I have problem with my hearing seriously, but would love to be clarified.

Thank you.

Robert

Avatar
tamlin
Denver, CO
Advanced member
Members
November 19, 2012 - 12:49 am
Member Since: September 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 91
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

ratvn said
As mentioned in earlier posts, it's using pentatonic scale but it sounded like non-tempered scale. In another word, there seems like maybe 2 notes in the scale being tuned about 15-20 cents different, intentionally, comparing to our tempered pitches.

I play like my contemporaries: equal temperament, standard 7 note scales. Point of this thread was to throw out some starter points for the genre. Sorry I can't do more with that question. IMHO: non-standard scales/temperaments/tunings merit a new thread.

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: BillyG
29 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today kit, wisco kid
Upcoming Mad_Wed, Andrew, Prudence, ButteryStuffs, makinnoise

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3767

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3564

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6448

Posts: 80419

Newest Members:

MACJR, bo, EKBanjo, charlieD, Folky fiddler, Morgenes42

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11717, KindaScratchy: 1651