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3rd Position Ab
Does anyone know where to find a fingering chart for 3rd position key scale of Ab ?
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Oliver
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August 30, 2012 - 9:25 pm
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I guess my question is supposed to be easy but I have a mental block. 

What does the fingering look like for a scale in 3rd position in Ab ?

Is Ab note on the E string legitimate going down ?  Same for Db on A string ?

dazeddazeddazed

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Picklefish
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August 31, 2012 - 6:15 am
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Oliver said
I guess my question is supposed to be easy but I have a mental block. 

What does the fingering look like for a scale in 3rd position in Ab ?

Is Ab note on the E string legitimate going down ?  Same for Db on A string ?

dazeddazeddazed

 

1 st finger on E string would be the A flat then a whole tone and a half to the B, then a half tone to the C and another whole to the D. so it would be 1  23 4. I dont understand the question about A flat being legitimate. You could always play the G sharp when you shift back to first posistion. It would be a C# on the A string. But then maybe im not cognitizing your query efficiently enough.  imo pfish.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Oliver
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August 31, 2012 - 8:12 am
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Hard to explain but ..... let's agree that 3rd position begins at C-G-D-A. 

Does playing in 3rd position assume all notes at the C-G-D-A line or higher ?

If I play below the C-G-D-A line, is that the "2 1/2" position?

What are the smart choices ?

Does it matter ? 

I would like to play whatever notes (positions) are available per the music but can that lead to bad habits ? (I thought I had them all already!)

violin-student

I thought of another way to visualize the situation.

Is the 3rd position "in effect" similar to a guitar capo ?  Can't go south on guitar capo!

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlerman
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August 31, 2012 - 12:58 pm
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There is only one half position and that is half position below 1st position. Used on occasions were you have a lot of flats.

I don't know much about guitar so I can't answer your question about the guitar capo :-( but I am sure someone can.

Smart choices exist but not everyone always agree with which choice is the smartest. However, whichever is the easiest and sounds the best is the smartest for you in the end. Sometimes you need to work on a more difficult position to discover how much easier it is though. smile

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Oliver
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August 31, 2012 - 3:16 pm
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I would naturally go to the most convenient note location in any given situation.  I'm just lazy about it and the easiest to reach is the best for me but I may be breaking a lot of rules !

I found my old copy of THIRD AND FIFTH POSITION book by Applebaum and it has 30 pages but maybe only 1 1/2 pages for flat keys.  So, the subject is not too popular I guess !

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Mad_Wed
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August 31, 2012 - 5:05 pm
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Hmmm... I usualy use my 4th to play Ab or whatever on a lower string in III pos. But depends alot of where music goes next. Many times, as PF said, one can go to the I pos and play G#

I think it won't be a bad habit, if You use the 1st finger to go back (down). You know how much it is used in I position! You can play F, F#; E and Eb etc. So i don't think it could be something bad if it's convenient in a particular situation dunno

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Picklefish
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August 31, 2012 - 5:46 pm
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I hope Oliver isnt confused about the real purpose of shifting. Its no to play an entire piece in 3rd posistion for instance. its to make a particular phrasing (groups of measures) either more efficient to play, sound better played that way, or to avoid string changes that could disrupt the flow. Also its not a this is right this is wrong thing, the key is to make the music sound the best as efficiently as possible. Notice I didnt say as easy as possible. As always, its gonna take a bunch o practice. imo.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Oliver
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August 31, 2012 - 7:19 pm
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Well, it turns out that I have been ambushed by a praise band/choir director.  She thinks my destiny is to play printed music that is always above the staff.  And this indeed is often where the violin winds up. 

The second issue for higher positions is that I really dislike playing on open strings.

However, praise band music often goes through 2 or 3 or more key changes and one of those keys is almost always Ab.   Check mate! 

Treating the flat keys in higher positions like the plague is disgraceful for the pedagogical community

droolingdroolingdrooling

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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dionysia
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August 31, 2012 - 8:02 pm
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Tell your choir director that reching the higher power doesn't always have to involve the higher notes.....wink

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Oliver
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August 31, 2012 - 8:44 pm
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roflol

 

She may think I'm demeaning her flute and then I will really be in trouble !

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlerman
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September 2, 2012 - 10:14 am
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Oliver - she probably just gave you the notes that she couldn't play. IMAO

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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