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Angles, strings and bow direction - A tricky combination -
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JuanFiddler
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January 3, 2012 - 7:25 am
Member Since: December 27, 2011
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Hi everybody,

I would like to ask you all how you manage to control the angle and the direction of the bow while you are playing.

It has happened to me several times to hit two strings at the time, BUT the second string is touched by my fingers on consecutive string. So imagine how badly it sounds!!!

So if you guys have any tips for this kind of problem I would deeply appriciate it 🙂

 

Thank you all very much.

 

Juan violin-student

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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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January 3, 2012 - 8:07 am
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I play about 9 months and still hit 2 strings facepalm. I guess only practice can help devil-violindevil-violindevil-violindevil-violin

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HeadCheese
Plano, Texas
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January 3, 2012 - 8:29 am
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Bowing is turning out to be my biggest challenge, as well. I'm forever drawing across the wrong string. Practice has got to be about the only way I can think of to be in the right position and angle.

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JuanFiddler
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January 3, 2012 - 8:31 am
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Oh my ... surprised well I am glad it is not just me then 😉

Check out my audio file with twinkle twinkle and you will hear how hit two strings facepalm hahahaha. Anyways, it was fun doing that.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 3, 2012 - 10:24 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717

To control the strings that you play on you use different elbow height's, or angles. Having fingers on the different strings is actually fine and you'll learn to control that later as well but first practice your bowing angles.

Begin by doing exercises on one string at a time. The best is to work on the D and then the A since they have strings on both sides.
Pay close attention to the feeling you have when you are in the perfect position and try to engrave that feeling.
Play slow strokes from the frog to the tip. Play also only on the lower half and only on the upper half and only in the middle. Try to cover all aspects of playing and focusing on staying exactly between the other two strings.
Don't look at where you are playing, rather feel it and memorize it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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BCShalom
Seattle, WA
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January 3, 2012 - 12:34 pm
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Can some of the problem, FM, be that the bridge isn't set up correctly sometimes?  I carved a new bridge for my cheap E-Bay fiddle, and it got better.  I also lowered the bridge because the strings were really high from the nut to the bridge.  It seems to be better now.  Just wondering.  The new bridge didn't change the sound at all, well didn't make it worse. I have been experimenting with different Bridge shapes and styles. coffee1

Anyway, Set up, a professional set up with a new fiddle?

 

Shalom Shalom

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Oliver
NC
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January 3, 2012 - 12:40 pm
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I have what I think is a really unique way to mess up bowing.  First is to memorize the correct angles for the different strings.  Then, when playing, move the violin !

Now, no reasonable person moves the violin except perhaps when doing a nasty shift or left hand rotation (C# on the G string to F on the E) or some other major motion. It happens.

I guess the pros compensate without thinking about it but I have to think about it and it can affect even some simple music.

My survey of violin playing on YouTube shows that most violins are pretty still except for the acrobats in pajamas who also play the violin. 

If I start or move with my violin out of position, the bow knows !

coffee2

PS   I can also hit 2 strings pretty regularly by having the bow hair too loose.

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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January 3, 2012 - 3:29 pm
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Fiddlerman said

Don't look at where you are playing, rather feel it and memorize it.

D*mn it!!facepalm     !!!!!!!! Thanks !!!!!!!!

I always look at the bow (not the bow - it's too close to the eyes and i have to look at the fingerboard to see the bow) and totally not focusing on feeling or the right angle!

I'll try tomorrow !

facepalmfacepalm sometimes i don't realize obvious things facepalmfacepalm

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 3, 2012 - 4:20 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717

LOL,

I got a visual of you looking at the bow crossing your eyes. ROTFFLMAOWTO!!!

Yes, Shalom, it could be that the bridge is too flat but most beginners have a problem with hitting other strings unintentionally. As I recall from Kevins "How to" on fitting a new bridge, you use the same curve as the fingerboard. Is that right Kevin?

Loose hair!!! Haven't thought about that Oliver. smile I'm sure you are right too.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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CGBownut
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January 3, 2012 - 6:52 pm
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Not that I think this is involved, but when I got my new old Fiddle. The luthier informed me that he would need to raise the finger board as it had dropped over time and that someone had already made a custom low bridge to try and fix the problem that way, but what occured was that there was not much of an arch on the strings due to the design of the bridge and its height.

   Does that make any sense?   Well anyway he shimmed the finger board up a MM or 2 and put on a new bridge and there now was a very clear arch to the stirngs.

    So I know it is my bowing when I drone by accident.

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Oliver
NC
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January 3, 2012 - 7:20 pm
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A usual way that a fingerboard can droop is if the hide glue securing the fingerboard tends to creep slightly and the tension of the strings pulls the fingerboard down.  I imagine that may happen with very old violins.  On the other hand, I wonder how and where a shim might be placed to help cure the condition without sacrificing sound quality?  Do you know if the fingerboard was entirely removed and reset with a shim?

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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January 4, 2012 - 12:04 pm
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Fiddlerman said

LOL,

I got a visual of you looking at the bow crossing your eyes. ROTFFLMAOWTO!!!....

Heee-Heee! If You could see me today, You'd laugh much more... so:

Today i've got unexpected day off clap and tried to play without looking on fingerboard...

Turned off my face and even closed the eyes... BUT! Once i've started to play - Evil forces turned my head back and opened my eyes!! And i turned off again... then again... Then... i haven't find something better than tie my eyes with a piece of cloth... First 8-10 seconds my brain refused to give orders to my armsduncecap! /Command UNKNOWN - ERROR!! hee-hee!devil/ But then, when i started to play at last i noticed that my intonation and dynamics went better!dunno Despite of all those next-string-hittings i've got much more joy of playing like that!

My newest goal - learn to play without looking on fingerboard (and without tying my eyes LOL! =))

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 4, 2012 - 6:23 pm
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You are funny Naska. Wish I could have seen that smile
Have most of your products. Just waiting for the practice mute, dope, and tuning fork 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
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January 5, 2012 - 9:39 am
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Fiddlerman said

LOL,

I got a visual of you looking at the bow crossing your eyes. ROTFFLMAOWTO!!!

Yes, Shalom, it could be that the bridge is too flat but most beginners have a problem with hitting other strings unintentionally. As I recall from Kevins "How to" on fitting a new bridge, you use the same curve as the fingerboard. Is that right Kevin?

Loose hair!!! Haven't thought about that Oliver. smile I'm sure you are right too.

Yes. the curve on the fingerboard and the bridge are the same the curve on the bridge just has a different angle so to speak so that the e string is closer to the neck than the g string.

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Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
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January 5, 2012 - 9:46 am
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Oliver said

A usual way that a fingerboard can droop is if the hide glue securing the fingerboard tends to creep slightly and the tension of the strings pulls the fingerboard down.  I imagine that may happen with very old violins.  On the other hand, I wonder how and where a shim might be placed to help cure the condition without sacrificing sound quality?  Do you know if the fingerboard was entirely removed and reset with a shim?

coffee2

Usually the fingerboard angle starts changing because the entire violin comes out of shape from the string tension.  I find the best way to fix this is to remove the neck and reposition it.  If the fingerboard hasn't dropped too much you can remove the nut and plane the fingerboard to a new angle or put on a new thicker fingerboard and plane it so the angle is good.  I don't really like shims at all.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 5, 2012 - 11:45 am
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Having the bridge higher on the lower strings makes perfect sense because of the width of vibrations the low strings have. Thanks Kevin.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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January 5, 2012 - 1:38 pm
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Fiddlerman said

You are funny Naska. Wish I could have seen that smile
Have most of your products. Just waiting for the practice mute, dope, and tuning fork 🙂

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