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Bouncing Bow Part 3E25
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March 30, 2012 - 2:59 pm
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Is it typical to have a bouncing bow as a beginner until you get a certain # of hours of practice to get the muscles into shape? 

Are there multiple physical causes?  eg. sudden pressure change, failure to either adjust/keep straight angle to the string...

I've seen the Fiddlerman video,  explanations in the Robert Gerle book,  and the Fischer tone production DVD and I still have the problem off and on and am not sure if its just a lack of fitness in the arm/hand or something else.

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cdennyb
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March 30, 2012 - 5:26 pm
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I find that with a new application of rosin, a good sticky bit, and a light pressure, I can get a bounce as well. Play the bow aggressively and there seldom an issue.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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cdennyb
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March 30, 2012 - 5:31 pm
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I'm using a decent pernambuco bow with fresh hair as well.IMG_20120129_204448.jpgImage Enlarger

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"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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March 30, 2012 - 7:04 pm
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I have a pernambuco bow as well.  Its heavier and more prone to bounce than the cheap bow that came with the violin.  I'm stuck in Sevcik School for Beginners, first page bowing exercises on open strings.  I keep thinking focusing on bowing 2 strings will cure the bounce problem simply by improved bow control but frankly I have no idea.  I will post a video sometime but first I have to get the camera.

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cdennyb
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March 30, 2012 - 9:50 pm
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I think the heavier is not that related to bouncing, My pernambuco is 69 grams and the CF bow is 59 grams and either one will behave the same given the circumstances and details as I posted above. Perhaps the way you handle the bow is to blame, I find myself being more gentle on the CF bow just because I don't have to press so hard with the heavier one, does that make sense?

Get used to running in boots and find yourself flying with track shoes on.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Fiddlerman
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March 30, 2012 - 11:52 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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What part of the bow are you in when the bow bounces?
Tip, upper half, middle, lower half, or frog?

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but the one who needs the least."

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March 31, 2012 - 3:15 am
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Lower half of the bow, only on the downstroke.  My right pinky is curved and relaxed.  I'm using a franco-belgian hold.  I have not worked on smooth bow changes yet.

I'm trying a new strategy to eliminate the tremolo/bounce.  Instead of up and down with varying bow lengths,  I'm now stopping the bow without changing direction.  For example, starting at the frog....down half a bow, stop, down till the tip, stop, up half a bow, stop, up till the frog, stop.  I do this by dividing the bow from smaller divisions at the beginning to larger and then change the speed from slow as possible to quick as possible.  Its very deliberate and I feel it enhances learning to control the bow in a progressive manner while I examine from different angles in the mirror.

But there's no point starting Sevcik Beginner school until 1. tremolo/bounce completely eliminated...2. smooth bow changes.

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Fiddlerman
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March 31, 2012 - 8:03 am
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Well, it's funny you should mention the franco-belgian hold. I've never said it before but that is what most of us use. The alternative would be making contact with your index finger much closer to the hand which is more of a Russian grip. I think this causes more pressure and less control. It also makes it hard to do smooth bow changes.
When you make a down bow at the frog what position is your wrist in. Mine is more than straight rather than bent. See the two pictures to the right. These movements are meant to happen automatically on the bow changes and not be forced but if you experiment with it and practice it a little everyday it will begin to happen by itself.

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Fiddlestix
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March 31, 2012 - 9:50 am
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This is a very interesting topic. I wonder how many people are reading this with their bow's and fiddles in their hands, testing out every imaginable way ?violin-student

violin_girl        devil-violin

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NoirVelours
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March 31, 2012 - 12:01 pm
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By checking my hold and comparing it to holds on pictures and videos I realized I have a  russian hold. It's the position that was comfortable and natural for me when I picked up the bow. I tried that franco belgian and it felt wrong for my hand and I was not making nice sounds at all. I dunno if it's my russian hold but I have no bouncing bow problem at all, maybe the positioning of the index applies more weight of the bow without efforts?

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