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Bouncing! Can't stop it!
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Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
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October 24, 2011 - 1:19 pm
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One of the greatest problem i have!

I start every session from playing on open strings. I play this way until bouncing ends. But when i start to work on a piece i learn.. bouncing is BACK! =((

I tried to understand where it comes from.. No idea. Tried to remember, what am i doing, when it not bouncing.. Useless. I loose my bow hair as much as it stays in playable condition. doesn't help. Tired of that already. I find in i-net couple of advices, like: "play upside down" for examplerofl . Or Hold the bow perpendicular to the string (not horizontally aka parallel to the bridge, but vertically ! how something can be vertically perpendicular to a string? drooling).

 

If somebody knows where bouncing comes from, how to prevent it or what to do to put an end of it, please, answer!! 

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 24, 2011 - 2:12 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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  • Play from the frog to the middle only for 5 minutes or so.
  • Play using the middle third only for 5 mintues.
  • Play from the middle to the tip only for 5 minutes.

Let me know in which section of the bow you get the most bouncing from.

Practice drawing slow bows at a hight of about 1-2 cm's over the string from frog to tip. It is difficult and you may discover a few problems with your stroke this way.

When you experience bouncing try turning the bow clockwise a bit and wrapping your pointer finger around the stick slightly to gain a little more control.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Robyn.fnq
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October 24, 2011 - 11:51 pm
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Thanks for the post Mad ... and thanks for the reply FM.

I have the same problem, never know when to loosen and when to tighten, but I'll try these exercises too.  I still have ongoing problems with my bow hold, my hand seems to migrate while I'm playing (without my permission), but then so does everything else ... migrate that is.

facepalm

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

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pky
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October 25, 2011 - 12:17 am
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I think that was probably the same weird sound I got on my A string (sometimes E string as well) when i play campbell's farewell to red gap. I just tried what teh FM posted, and it seems to happen only on down bow. Since I played campbell much faster than when i just doing it slowly, so it the bounces were much faster, more like a incoordinated vibration, thus it sounded weird.

Thank you!

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Mad_Wed
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October 25, 2011 - 4:29 am
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Fiddlerman said:

  • Play from the frog to the middle only for 5 minutes or so.
  • Play using the middle third only for 5 mintues.
  • Play from the middle to the tip only for 5 minutes.

Let me know in which section of the bow you get the most bouncing from.

Practice drawing slow bows at a hight of about 1-2 cm's over the string from frog to tip. It is difficult and you may discover a few problems with your stroke this way.

When you experience bouncing try turning the bow clockwise a bit and wrapping your pointer finger around the stick slightly to gain a little more control.

Thank you, FiddlerMan!

I've done those researching exercises:

1. From the frog to the middle - NOT BOUNCING

2. Middle third -  Bouncing a little, when bowing down. Starts bouncing in the higher points of middle third, but if i concentrate on it i can fix it some how.

3. From the middle to the tip -  BOUNCING EVERY TIME!! Uncontrollable.. No matter, what i do ='(

 

 Practice drawing slow bows at a hight of about 1-2 cm's over the string from frog to tip. It is difficult and you may discover a few problems with your stroke this way. 

 

I can't  keep it on same level all the time. Up<->down all the way. Tip-up, frog-down, frog-down, tip-up... I will work more on this. devil 

 

Thank you 

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Mad_Wed
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October 25, 2011 - 4:33 am
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Robyn.fnq said:

Thanks for the post Mad ... and thanks for the reply FM.

I have the same problem, never know when to loosen and when to tighten, but I'll try these exercises too.  I still have ongoing problems with my bow hold, my hand seems to migrate while I'm playing (without my permission), but then so does everything else ... migrate that is.

facepalm

No problem, Robyn! I'm glad that topic is useful! I hope it will help you too =)

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 25, 2011 - 11:12 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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So this is the problem then. When your wrist is bent back you have a slight tension which causes some trembling or whatever you call it.

First you need to make sure the violin is as high up as possible on your collar bone or with a shoulder-rest even higher. This will lessen the stretch. The lower you keep your violin towards your chest the more you need to stretch your right arm and hand to get to the tip. Try it and it will make sense to you right away.

Next you should try very slight stretching with your right hand wrist. Pull it back in the same way it gets pulled back when playing towards the tip, hold it for about 30 seconds. Be sure to do this gently so as not to cause and pain or damage. Better to do a little gently everyday than try to solve your problem in one week.

Good luck. cow-fingerscrossed

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mad_Wed
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October 25, 2011 - 11:56 am
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Thanks again!! I'll definitely do this! 

But suddenly i find a way (not really a way!! WARNING!! NOT AN OPTION!!) to control bouncing: when i hold right hand unbendable (no wrist or finger movement) it goes still and - no trembling, but then also NO smooth bow changing and terrible string crossing - that why not an option =/

i wish i could fix it in a week... amuse i'll work on it!! devil-violindevil-violindevil-violin

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 25, 2011 - 12:08 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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Mad_Wed said:

Thanks again!! I'll definitely do this! 

But suddenly i find a way (not really a way!! WARNING!! NOT AN OPTION!!) to control bouncing: when i hold right hand unbendable (no wrist or finger movement) it goes still and - no trembling, but then also NO smooth bow changing and terrible string crossing - that why not an option =/

Try moving mostly the fingers instead of the hand or wrist for the flexibility at the tip.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Robyn.fnq
Queensland, Australia
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October 26, 2011 - 12:43 am
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Thanks again Mad and FM,

I tried the exercises, can't hold the bow from frog to tip without it flying all over the place, and my bouncing is usually at the tip end, all of the top half really.

I've tried in front of a mirror, and I can't even control the bow when I'm watching and going slowly.  I do some light weights every morning, maybe I need some more strengthening exercises for my wrist ... or something.  I just can't control it's direction at all.

facepalm  embarassed

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

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Fiddlerman
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October 26, 2011 - 7:48 am
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So same thing for you Robyn,

It's because of the tension in your wrist when your arm is stretched out. Get the violin as high as possible and gently stretch before playing.

You guys should also try applying a little more pressure as you get closer to the tip. It works out well since the bow is lighter in that position.

Try to curl your index finger on the down bow at the tip.

Question - Does the bow bounce in both directions or only on the down bow?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mad_Wed
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October 30, 2011 - 12:00 pm
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Fiddlerman said:

Question – Does the bow bounce in both directions or only on the down bow?

In my case- only on the down bow.. It starts mostly in the middle of the bow and escalates to the tip. I guess it could be a result of non-smooth bow changing (?).

Also can't do that stretching exercise  before practice, because when i finished (i do it for every string) my hand starts to shake.. If i do that after practice will it make same result or worse one? duncecap 

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Fiddlerman
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October 30, 2011 - 6:04 pm
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The fact that it happens mostly on the down bow tells me for sure that it is the tension in your wrist and not because of the non smooth bow changes. You'll see that if you start with the bow on the string in the middle and draw the bow down it'll start to bounce. That's without ever changing directions.

Do the stretch before and after. If you shake afterwards it's only now and will get better afterwards. I recommend that you do that stretch, GENTLY, before and after. Rather than stretching hard, do it for a longer period of time.

Also, remember to curl the first finger around the stick slightly on the down bow.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Robyn.fnq
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October 30, 2011 - 9:53 pm
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Yep … I seem to be having the same problem as Mad (aka Naska).

Thanks FM, I tried putting that little bit more pressure on the index finger as you said, and it seems to reduce the bouncing. I need to try to remember to do it while playing as well … another little exercise to add to my daily warm up till it becomes habit.

The stretch of the wrist I do daily anyway, because I feel I have the beginnings of carpel tunnel in my left wrist, so I stretch both.  Hopefully it will help the playing as well.

Thanks again FM, you're a darling!

heart

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

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Fiddlerman
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October 30, 2011 - 11:23 pm
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Robyn.fnq said:

.......Thanks again FM, you're a darling!

heart

embarassed

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mad_Wed
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October 31, 2011 - 9:22 am
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Haa-haaa!!! FUN!!! rofl

 

Fiddlerman said:

The fact that it happens mostly on the down bow tells me for sure that it is the tension in your wrist and not because of the non smooth bow changes. You'll see that if you start with the bow on the string in the middle and draw the bow down it'll start to bounce. That's without ever changing directions.

Yeap! My today's research proved that as well (i didn't doubt of course). But also i found out that if i start from the middle, i can reduce that "Thing That Can't be Named" somehow..  But if i play up and then down- it's uncontrollable facepalm 

I continue fallow all of this recommendations and exercises... exactly 

Also, remember to curl the first finger around the stick slightly on the down bow.

I remember =) exactly  

Thank You, FiddlerMan!

Thank You, Robyn! I wish us luck!! birthday_balloon 

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Robyn.fnq
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November 1, 2011 - 8:30 pm
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Woo Hoo !!  I've added just that little bit more pressure with my index finger in all playing, and guess what?  It makes SO much difference to the sound.  I think I've been a little scared of pressure on the bow from the start, and now I'm starting a whole new phase of learning.  Helps the bouncing amazingly too.

dancing

Last week I was thinking about giving up on the Christmas project because I just couldn't GET it ... but this week I'm going to sound GREAT.

santa3  gingerbreadhouse

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Fiddlerman
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November 1, 2011 - 10:16 pm
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YeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!! That's music to my ears. Congratulations on feeling it. This is just the beginning too.

dancing

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Mad_Wed
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November 2, 2011 - 3:12 am
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cheerleadercheerleadercheerleader 

WOW,Robyn! I'm so happy for you!!! Wish to see your video !!

I'm yet not such successful facepalm. When try to apply a little more pressure - i make crescendo drooling. Now i'm trying to apply pressure and not to make crescendosdazed.. But i WILL do this!!! i'm kinda slow-learning but i'm persistent !

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Robyn.fnq
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November 2, 2011 - 5:19 am
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Hey Mad, I didn't realise how much difference it would make, and yes, I play a little louder now, but it's constant.  It doesn't help my bad intonation, that is still a work in progress.

I'm sure you'll get it a lot faster than me, you're a lot younger than me.

dancing

If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.

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