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Dorian scales
Dorian ?Pentatonic?
Topic Rating: 4.3 Topic Rating: 4.3 Topic Rating: 4.3 Topic Rating: 4.3 Topic Rating: 4.3 Topic Rating: 4.3 (7 votes) 
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DanielB
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November 30, 2012 - 2:09 pm
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To redirect to the original question though, pentatonic scales have 5 notes while a Dorian scale or mode has 7.  So to answer the original question again (always good to do once in a while when a thread wanders far), nope they aren't the same thing. 

 

About pentatonic scales, if I recall correctly, any group of 5 sequential notes within an octave can be considered a pentatonic scale.  Like you could do things like take a minor pentatonic and drop some interval in it by a half step, then maybe add that half step to the next tone and you'd have made yet another pentatonic scale that could also be explored/classified modally so far as it's variants.  Whether it would be very useful for actual musical use that anyone might want to hear, who knows?  Pentatonic is a very general term, though many musicians seem to be referring only to the "standard" major or minor pentatonics when mentioning them.  But one could come up with some pretty unusual stuff by changing what tones are removed, and sharping or flatting different intervals of the scale to get a pretty wide range of variants not to be found in a modal table of the more well known major pentatonic.

 

 

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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tamlin
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November 30, 2012 - 5:01 pm
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TerryT said

is a Dorian scale the same as a pent atomic scale?

drooling

Nope.

I like things simple and avoid theory as much as possible and listen to the music... here's another, more applied kinda way, that might possibly be useful to think about all these confusing "scales"...

Songwriters use Dorian mode to make a tune sound kinda minor, edgy or jazzy. "Dorian" is just that sound/feeling/mood created when they use the second scale degree to function as the root chord. Not worrying about scales yet - it is the chords in the song that make the sound. Starting on the second scale degree revolves the whole tune around a minor chord: Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall Pt II is in D Dorian. Easiest to not think about it, just hear it: Youtube search "dorian jam track" for oodles of Dorian jams.

To make this into a Dorian "scale" .. for example, with the intention to play along with Pink Floyd in D Dorian... all anyone really needs to know is what key signature to play (it might be a good idea to have some licks or a melody in mind too). Knowing the key signature ensures that whatever solo/runs/melodic lick are generated move along with the song's chord progressions, in this example, based in D Dorian.

So to get that key signature for D Dorian, just solve for the key that has D as its second degree.

?DEFGAB

Which is they key of C. So the key sig of C goes with D Dorian mode. Play C scale starting on the second step, D, and that's the Dorian "scale". Jam along with Floyd in D Dorian using the key signature C.

For any ambitious types, chord theory, modes etc, here : http://www.thejazzchameleon.co.....page_id=14

Pentatonic "scales" are all over, but predominate the blues. Anyone who has listened to Jimi Hendrix, BB King or the Allman Brothers has heard pentatonic patterns/licks/jams. The following video is for guitar, but easy to see why it comes up so often and HEAR the difference in sound and mood with a Dorian jam.

Enjoy :)

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

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Fiddlestix
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tamlin said

TerryT said

is a Dorian scale the same as a pent atomic scale?

drooling

Nope.

I like things simple and avoid theory as much as possible and listen to the music... here's another, more applied kinda way, that might possibly be useful to think about all these confusing "scales"..

 

_____________________________________

 

My thinking as well, tamlin.

Thank's for that explanation and video.  That was super.         hats_off

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ratvn
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November 30, 2012 - 10:19 pm
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Fiddlestix said 
My thinking as well, tamlin.

I totally agree with you there.

tamlin said 

Pentatonic "scales" are all over, but predominate the blues.

 

Thank you for your detailed explanation and the vid. Upon watching it I noticed some of the notes in those pentatonic scale are raised (from equal tempered) and with vibrato. In some of Eastern pentatonic scales I learned, raising pitch and vibrato are mandatory playing techniques. What a coincidence!

 

@RosinedUp: for pentatonic and Dorian scales, I think DanielB and tamlin very well summarized the points, from a 12 tone equal tempered tuning point of view.

As for the question regarding Chinese/Japanese pentatonic scales, I think it does offer some simple comparisons between their pentatonics and western tempered scales, but it's way simplified as there're lot more to it. Chinese traditional music has a tempered scale, among others non tempered.

This was in my posts earlier, there are many tuning systems in use in many music cultures around the world, and when introducing non tempered tuning systems to the pitch of the notes, then things really got complicated real quick, and when there are several tuning systems used in playing, one after another or a mix in just one piece of music ....I don't want to confuse you ...because I got confused too.

 

 

 

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tamlin
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December 1, 2012 - 7:17 pm
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Pentatonics are kinda neat... Bobby McFerrin... short clip

Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker

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