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Intonation game, the difference between intermediate and advanced
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Samuel L Boogie
Oxford England
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October 19, 2011 - 4:16 am
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I've just had my first goes at the intonation game and was delighted to breeze through the beginner and intermediate levels straight away. Then some what shocked to find I couldn't hear the difference on the advanced level at all. 

 

Is this something I should worry about as a beginner, or should I forget about it for now?

 

Could someone help me understand the actual difference between the two levels?

 

Cheers,

Sam.

 

Edit: So, I had another go and found I wasn't trusting my self enough. I could in fact hear most of the errors but they sounded so slight I hadn't had enough faith in my ears. I still got some completely wrong though!

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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Mad_Wed
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October 19, 2011 - 4:39 am
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The difference between sounds on advanced level is veeeeery small! Don't worry if you miss some of it for now, just keep on playing that game and play the violin (if you have one) and some day you will definitely HEAR every small differences.

 

ps. Trust your ears wink 

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Samuel L Boogie
Oxford England
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October 19, 2011 - 4:49 am
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Thanks, that makes me feel better. I think I will stick to learning to read music for now. 

 

No violin for a couple of months yet 🙁

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 19, 2011 - 8:15 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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True story, one of my friends who will rename nameless 🙂 is a fantastic musician and was over at my place when I finished the game. I had him try it out and he missed quite a few. He did much better each time he tried again because he was focusing so much more. He didn't trust the game at first.

The reason why this game is good is that it forces you to focus on intonation as you should do when you play later as well. You'll find that if you focus intensely on intonation in the very beginning it will get easier later. Scales and exercises are designed very much for intonation purposes.

Don't worry if you did badly, you will get better if you don't give up.coffee

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Samuel L Boogie
Oxford England
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October 20, 2011 - 11:10 am
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Thanks for the reply FM, and in response to your question in the shout box. Yes it is to be a Christmas present, I have to spend all my hard earned on nappies and baby food these days so hoping to get some monies together over Christmas.

 

I'm having real trouble finding a violin shop to go to though, I live in Oxford which is a lovely place but unfortunately is a bit posh and the only shops I have found are more interested in selling violins for thousands of pounds rather than a few hundred. 

 

I may have to take a trip to London at this rate, still I am very excited at the prospect of searching out my first violin. 

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 20, 2011 - 7:13 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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Doesn't kkmusicstore deliver to UK? I know all about those guys that want to make money selling expensive instruments. facepalm

Good luck in finding a good fiddle.violin-student

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Samuel L Boogie
Oxford England
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October 21, 2011 - 4:26 am
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They do deliver to the UK and for free! After some exchange rate/tax calculations I would be looking at spending CVN-600 money over here. But I am guessing it would need to be set up for me once it arrived so assuming that costs £100 or so I would be looking at the Mendini or CVN-500.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts, especially with regards to setup. Also I am unsure about the wisdom of shipping some thing as delicate as a violin all that way.

 

Do you have any experience with violins i would be looking at in sold in the UK for $400 including setup? Here are some links;

 

http://www.violincompany.co.uk.....lin_no=282

 

http://www.violinslover.com/Ou.....hp?I=B4663

 

Many thanks.

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 21, 2011 - 7:43 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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I looked at both instruments and they look great on the site. I have no experience with any inexpensive instruments except for the ones that Cecilio has sent to me.

Most new instruments are made in China, apparently 70%. They call those hand made even though they are hand made with machines and on assembly lines. These guys are fast and accurate but they don't put the love or pride into making an instrument with their name on it. Just factory workers doing their job. So when it comes to inexpensive instruments such as these you never know what you will get. I suspect that a few new fiddles have exactly what it takes to sound like an old Strad eventually if set up properly and played in for a long time.  Luck of the draw, just the right wood and thickness, etc.

From the two links you showed me I like the Romanian violin and would be curious to try it. My favorite way to pick out a violin is to hold it in my hand and try it. The problem if you get an instrument from US is that you would have to pay too much postage to return it if you had to so I don't recommend that you get the Mendini. I was thinking that you get the CVN-200 and have a luthier set it up for you if necessary with a new sound-post, bridge and good strings. The reason I am suggesting the CVN200 is that I don't think anyone can sell a better instrument for $100. I've seen and tried two of them so far. They sound good the way they come but when I changed the strings on gStretch's violin it sounded even better and was easier to keep in tune.

I really wish there was a way I could help you more with this. In any case it'll be interesting to see what happens.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Samuel L Boogie
Oxford England
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October 21, 2011 - 8:30 am
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Thanks again for your thoughts FM, I totally understand that it would be impossible for you to give any more advice than you have without actually playing them. I was just hoping maybe you had come across a Gliga during your time in Europe, although thinking about it given what you were up to it seems somewhat unlikely lol. You have given a none to brief and thoughtful answer to every thread of have started on your site and I really appreciate it 🙂 I look forward to keeping you updated as soon as I get anywhere.

 

The idea of the luck of the draw is something that seems to have come up a lot in my readings about cheap(er) violins. This is not something I like the idea of, whilst I can't afford to spend thousands I have the romantic notion of being able to keep my chosen violin for ever and for us to grow together. The idea of receiving my beloved new partner and then being disappointed makes me shudder. I very much doubt I will ever reach the point where I will be either good enough to require or be able to afford any sort of 'classic' violin. So I am going to strive to find the best one I can right from the off. I guess you could say I am a follower of the 'buy the best you can afford' approach to life, you could also say that I am diving in head first and could be wasting a boat load of cash. (meh) crossedfingers

 

Out of interest and this is likely a silly question but would you say there is a specific point in pricing where violins really reach a different (the next) level? I assume it is when you get into thousands but if it was for instance $800 instead of 400 it would be worth knowing.

 

I realise I really just need to get down to a shop but as I have said before this is proving difficult so I am keeping my self busy trying to go in as informed as possible when I eventually get there.

The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 21, 2011 - 1:06 pm
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I really don't think there is such a level. I've played on instruments that cost 100,000 dollars that sound worse than the CVN-200 that I gave away this month. Their values come from the maker and certificate.

Perlman once said that if you give him a cheap student violin and he could play it for a year it would sound like a solo instrument and if a bad player would play his instruments, listed below, they would sound terrible until played in again.

General Kyd Stradivarius 1714
Soil Stradivarius 1714
Sauret Guarnerius del Gesu 1743
ex-Kreisler Bergonzi 1740

Obviously this is not entirely true but there is a lot of truth to it. If you play a violin hard enough and with great vibrations and vibrato it will open up to you to a tremendous degree. I will do that experiment with one Cecilio's that I have at home. I'll change sound-post, bridge and strings and use it for a year for a review.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
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October 22, 2011 - 12:09 am
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I think you will be amazed at the violin with just the changes you listed.  After a year the finish will harden and give a sweeter tone.

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RP
Illinois
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October 22, 2011 - 3:01 am
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 I played the Intonation Game on Advanced last night, and missed a LOT of the lower frequency tones. It made me wonder if I have bad hearing! I played it again and missed less, but I had less low frequency tones randomly come up. I'm glad I'm not the only one having issues.  : )

 Good luck finding a violin you're happy with too!

 I got a Cecilio CVN-100 package from eBay. I didn't have really high hopes for it, but to me it's pretty decent to learn on, especially for the price. I got it before I found FiddlerMan and his YouTube reviews or I probably would have picked up the CVN-200 to start out.

I had to go inexpensive because:

 1.) I don't have the money to be spending a lot on a new hobby that's just for my own enjoyment.

 2.) If I did spend a ton of money on an instrument I'd get all paranoid about breaking it. (This coming from someone who was trying to stretch the shoulder rests feet over the widest part of the poor fiddle when I took it out of the case because I couldn't find any instructions online on how to put it on at first LOL!! duncecap)

 Finally: 3.) (I'm in full agreement with Fiddlerman's Pearlman reference.) The cruddiest instrument will sound beautiful in the hands of the right person, and the best violin in the world would still sound pretty awful in mine.  amuse

On "Cheap eBay violins" … Just tell people they are like a Charlie Brown Christmas Tree.  With a little love, and some practice, they too can be made beautiful.

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RP
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October 22, 2011 - 6:20 am
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It just sunk in... You live in Oxford!!! I'm jealous! I recently found The Oxford Fiddle Group on YouTube and became a huge fan of Jed Mugsford and the slow tunes he has recorded with friends. His fiddle playing makes me cry and he has definitely become one of my main influences in violin. In fact I am currently mutilating his version of Niel Gow's Lament for the Death of His Second Wife. The tune itself is beautiful and easy to play. I just can't play with any of the nifty accents like the rolls etc. yet.

That whole group of people is amazing if you like the style of music.

On "Cheap eBay violins" … Just tell people they are like a Charlie Brown Christmas Tree.  With a little love, and some practice, they too can be made beautiful.

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suresh
Tuticorin, India
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November 27, 2011 - 2:11 pm
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I was today searching for comments on Fiddlerman.com in Violinist.com and the following is one of the responses I got:

A Mandatory Music Quiz

http://www.violinist.com/discu.....m?ID=19617

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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