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Learning
stages of learning/practice
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (5 votes) 
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looking
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July 12, 2012 - 8:11 pm
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I have started to learn this violin late in life,  When I started I knew no music notation at all.  When I practice I usually try things in a non-constructive way, rather aimlessly, working through the books - , the analogy is the effect of wandering around blindfolded.

  I have to believe that there are 'stages' of learning. having accomplished one level - then you move onto the next.  Has anyone seen any information that follows this path,  the teacher I see has put me right on a few things, but half/hour lessons are sometimes quite unrewarding 

         For professional musicians - their 'practice' is not the practicing of technique or expertise, (although it is to some extent), but getting familiar with the piece of music.

           Any feedback ?         'Looking'    

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Picklefish
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July 12, 2012 - 8:49 pm
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looking said
I have started to learn this violin late in life,  When I started I knew no music notation at all.  When I practice I usually try things in a non-constructive way, rather aimlessly, working through the books - , the analogy is the effect of wandering around blindfolded.

  I have to believe that there are 'stages' of learning. having accomplished one level - then you move onto the next.  Has anyone seen any information that follows this path,  the teacher I see has put me right on a few things, but half/hour lessons are sometimes quite unrewarding 

         For professional musicians - their 'practice' is not the practicing of technique or expertise, (although it is to some extent), but getting familiar with the piece of music.

           Any feedback ?         'Looking'    

 

Im 41 and there are others on here even later in their lifes. The FM website has video lessons for all you need to learn to get started on the right or left foot. First stage- holding the instrument properly and bow fundamentals, grip rosin etc. Second stage - learning to bow the open strings properly. Third Stage learning the finger patterns and notes, intonation. Fourth stage- FM twinkle twinkle song and then you are off and running. It helps if you can read music. I also advocate a practice journal to record for posterity your journey and to help you focus in on what techniques you need to work on. Post a vid and we will post helps.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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KindaScratchy
Massachusetts
July 12, 2012 - 9:05 pm
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I'm two days short of a half century and just took up the violin five months ago. I did know music, having played the guitar since I was 11 and recorder, fife and flute also when I was a kid.

I've found that learning a new instrument as an adult is very different. I'm much more analytical about the learning process and more motivated to practice.

I'm finding that it's an iterative process. Seems like every day I make a new discovery about what works and what doesn't, and how to do something better. I have good days and bad days, but think I'm making progress in small steps.

Sometimes, I revisit something I learned at the very beginning but did not master, and suddenly it makes sense and works for some reason.

And, when I practice something over and over but feel like I'm not getting any better, I try some new challenge, then go back to the old familiar thing and suddenly I'm doing that better because it's comfortable.

Hope that makes sense.done

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

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Oliver
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July 12, 2012 - 9:09 pm
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All that is right on schedule dancing

Your ability to conceptualize and organize what you are doing is a big help for the violin mind games and it IS mostly a mind game.

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
July 12, 2012 - 10:56 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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Try to determine what you would like to be able to do on the violin. Set goals and make a plan on how you can accomplish your goals.

Here we do projects and you are very welcome to participate. The more the merrier. Lot's of members post what they are working on and their progress as well.

What are you working on now and what do you feel you can play?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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looking
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July 14, 2012 - 10:26 pm
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Thank you for the advice -  I like the idea from 'picklefish'  (where do these names come from !) of keeping a notebook, It would surely focus the thoughts,  -  if I can learn to hit the fingers correctly EVERY  time would be a big help.  The teacher suggested to keep the fingerboard pointed at the sheet music, it is then easier to keep eye on fingers and music!  It's two steps forward and one step back (but I suspect that is the case for almost everyone         

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Picklefish
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July 14, 2012 - 11:44 pm
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looking said
Thank you for the advice -  I like the idea from 'picklefish'  (where do these names come from !) of keeping a notebook, It would surely focus the thoughts,  -  if I can learn to hit the fingers correctly EVERY  time would be a big help.  The teacher suggested to keep the fingerboard pointed at the sheet music, it is then easier to keep eye on fingers and music!  It's two steps forward and one step back (but I suspect that is the case for almost everyone         

 

I hate to say it but......I will. Once you depend on visual ques to make sure your fingers are right it will be very hard to change that. You have to watch FM tutorials on the individual notes and finger posistions. Learning to place your fingers by hearing the notes is so much better, it will be discussed in my sunday video. Im not saying your teacher is wrong, but well, just watch the FM videos.jimi-hendrix

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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cdennyb
King for a Day, Peasant for many
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July 15, 2012 - 12:27 am
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Welcome to the family...

...using a fingerboard note chart taped to your board is very helpful to find the "right" note early on. I didnt use one, i struggled along, thingking I'd figure it out eventually but got a little frustrated, so I gave in a put one of Kevins' prinouts (a nice pdf) on and used it for a few weeks. Guess what... my fingers finally learned what my mind was trying to explain and finally they were able to hit the right notes about 80-% of the time.

Those odds are good for me.

You might start out there and then when you're comfortable with the sound you'll quit using it out of the mear fact you've learned beyond the need.

FM's videos and all the resources here are very valuable IF you choose to use them.. Use what you wnat skip what you want and move at your own pace. In 6 months you;d be shocked at how much you've learned... if you practice every day you can. 10 mins a day is far better than 2 hours on sunday afternoon.

thumbs-up

Oh... I'm 56 and have owned a fiddle for 50 Yrs. but seriously started learning to play 7 months ago. You can do it.banana

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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DanielB
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July 15, 2012 - 4:59 am
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So far as tapes and charts go, if you even think such things might help, try them if you feel like it.  So long as it doesn't hurt the instrument, and you can always take them off later, they aren't anything to worry about one way or the other, in my opinion.  Far too many people worry about such things.  I think that once one starts to hit the notes reasonably well, music itself teaches you because you want to make the song sound right.  

Stages of learning?  Well, it is a progression, and one can decide this is such and such a stage and that is such and such a stage.  Maybe it helps some people to think of learning as having mileposts like that, I don't know.  I can see where it might have some use for a classroom or a teacher trying to get a student to specific goals, but I don't feel it is actually necessary.  The main good thing I can see to it is that it gives some opportunities to feel a degree of accomplishment and to encourage yourself with a bit of a treat or celebration.  That can be good for morale, but one could just as easily reward themselves for every 20 hrs or practice or something.  There certainly will have been some progress in that amount of time.

Professional musicians I have known tended to practice both technique and expertise quite religiously, though.  The best of them also kept up their study of music theory, even if it was mostly to keep their memory refreshed on what they already knew.  Sure, study pieces for performance or recordings or whatever.  But it is not like there comes a time when you leave the basics.  The basics are basic because they are the foundation everything else rests on, and the more solid they get, the better everything else goes.  I don't believe in a time when we get to leave the basics behind.  We just add more advanced things to them and build on them.  

A guitar instructor I had some years ago was a professional session and recording guitarist, and had been for much of his life.  He considered things like scales and finger exercises to be part of "paying your dues".  He used to say that if you wanted to be good, you never stop paying your dues.  He said that being professional was when you figure out at some point that you have paid enough dues that you can also collect on them.  But that you never stop paying your dues or you'll lose your edge.

If we walked in when he was just by himself, often he would be doing the very same sorts of finger exercises and scales we learned in the first couple weeks of class.  But he might be doing them astoundingly fast and/or incredibly clean compared to us.  Sometimes not fast, though, but practising them with a certain feel.  He claimed that the scales and exercises he showed us in class was part of the very same stuff he used himself every day and that he sincerely hoped it was good enough to be of use to us "right through to the bitter end".  It was just basic stuff.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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Picklefish
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July 20, 2012 - 6:13 pm
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feature=related

 

His opening comment is , violin playin is easy, you just need to know a few tricks. ha ha!

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
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August 8, 2012 - 6:40 pm
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Hi

Don't let your age hold you back. I'm 62 and have been learning for about 5 months. My only regret now is that I didn't start decades ago. I'm enjoying it so much.

 

I'm learning without anything on the fingerboard. I reckon its better for me to learn with my ears rather than my eyes, even if it does hurt my ears sometimes violin-student

 

Its getting to the point that I can play with my eyes shut and hit the note 'most' of the time. semiquaver-1214

 

On the point of music notation, it would be worth your time to have a look at tablature. I'm finding it to be very useful.

 

BTW...Does anyone know who our oldest learner is and how old they are?

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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Kevin M.
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August 8, 2012 - 8:41 pm
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You have 4 years on me

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
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August 8, 2012 - 10:24 pm
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Ferret said.

BTW…Does anyone know who our oldest learner is and how old they are?

 

I'm not to sure, but I think I may be the oldest member here. I'll be 69 in September and have been playing off and on (more off) for the past 65 years.  violin-student I play for my own enjoyment.

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Ferret
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August 9, 2012 - 12:55 am
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Fiddlestix said

Ferret said.

BTW…Does anyone know who our oldest learner is and how old they are?

 

I'm not to sure, but I think I may be the oldest member here. I'll be 69 in September and have been playing off and on (more off) for the past 65 years.  violin-student I play for my own enjoyment.

Hi Fiddlestix

I know that learning the violin is a lifetime project, but if you have been playing (on and off) since you where a 4yr old, it puts you out of the beginner learner category when compared to my 5 months tongue

Have you any vids of you playing?

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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Fiddlestix
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August 9, 2012 - 4:58 am
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I think I have two vid's on here, but I don't know how to find them, I never wright down anything. Even doing a search for a recent topic has me stumped sometime's.

The two I posted were about 4 or 5 month's ago.   clock

I just tried to find them and can't.    dunno

 

I've been wanting to do a couple more video's, I find song's I like, song's from back year's ago, song's from old movie's and song's that come into my head while i'm watching TV. Sometime's while i'm playing one song, suddenly it leads to another.

There are several that I have wanted to do video's on, then I play them over and over and over, after I play them 80 or 100 time's in row, the get so they don't sound nice anymore, seem's like after it's been played so many time's, it loses it's beauty.

I read music and have all my life, but too many song's come to my head everyday that if I bought sheet music for all of them, I'd be broke. I only play for my own pleasure.

 

              violin-1260

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Grofica
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i like to record the sound and then play it back on a different day while reading the music it gives me places that i need to focus on..... amuse

~Grofica 

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