FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Quick question about scale options
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Jacques
San Diego
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2017 - 1:49 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2014
Forum Posts: 210
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
Avatar
Charles
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2017 - 2:50 pm
Member Since: June 7, 2016
Forum Posts: 293
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The ones that are in the keys of the music you most like to play. 🙂   That was phrased somewhat facetiously, but there's a lot of truth to it.

If you're still trying to find what genres you want to play and therefore have no idea, D and A are the most common, followed by G.  G has the advantage that you can play a 3-octave scale while in 1st position.  When you play either the G or the D scales, note how the pattern of your fingers changes two strings up. It goes from a gap of 2-2-1 to 2-1-2 on the next two strings (I'm speaking of the size of the gaps or the number of half-tones you go up).  (Of course, from the D string, that second string in the second pair is mythical unless you have a 5-string strung for soprano.)

Going by what my teacher had me do, spend some time playing chromatic scales (all half-steps).  Whether because of keys other than those or accidentals, sooner or later you're going to need to play less common notes like Eb, F, Bb, etc.  If your fingers have some idea where that note is, it helps a lot.  (It will still mess with your head at first to be playing what will seem like a "wrong" note with that finger/string combo, but that's one of the best reasons to practice playing them. They're not wrong notes, they're just not common ones when playing things like the G, D, and A scales.)

Avatar
Jacques
San Diego
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2017 - 3:56 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2014
Forum Posts: 210
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've practiced chromatic scales before, and now I have tuner that tells me what note I'm playing.

I ask this because my music is boring when playing only natural notes, although I do sometimes tweak a note sharp or flat to make it sound better. However, if I do a tweak here and there to support the melody of an otherwise c major scale -everything slowly falls out of place because of a lack in consistency.

therfore I'm figuring out different scales to learn well so that can provide a real flavor or mood to my music.

Charles, thanks for the clarification on popular scales. But to be more specific should I study the minor or major version, I ask this question because I'd like to learn the ones that are very popular with violins such as D Major ( f# c#) easy

 

what are the EXACT scales that people expect to hear from a violin? Feel free to list the actually notes if you'd like including the harmonic tones. (I do think that exists, right?)

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2017 - 5:58 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1722
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Lob in a few Pentatonic or Dorian scales just to add some additional interest

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

Avatar
Jacques
San Diego
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 24, 2017 - 10:23 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2014
Forum Posts: 210
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TerryT said
Lob in a few Pentatonic or Dorian scales just to add some additional interest  

I'd really like to read the definition of Pentatonic and Dorian scales in your own words please. 

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
August 25, 2017 - 12:28 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2230
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There is a whole heap of stuff out there describing the "modal scales"...   The basic "major scale" ( in any key ) is known as the "Ionian" mode.   In a major scale, there are 7 ( or 8 if you go to the octave ) notes.    Modal scales are nothing more or less than starting a "scale" at a different note-position in whatever key you happen to be playing in.   Almost everyone is aware of a tune played in a "major" ( ionian mode ), and a minor key ( aeolian mode ).   Dorian is another modal scale, just using exactly the same set of notes but starting on the note one tone up from the original tonic of the key you are using - 

check this page out   -  http://www.theorylessons.com/m.....emodes.php

   There are various ways of remembering the modal scales - I ( think ) I made this one up - pretty sure I did - 

I - Don't - Play -Loud - Music - Any - Longer

to remember the modal scale names for - Ionian, Dorian, Phyrigian, Lydian, Mixolodian, Aeolian, Locrian

   Hope that helps @jaquecaviolin thumbs-up

EDIT : Meant to say - don't get confused by what I said - pentatonic scales are not "strictly" modal - it's just a different scale ( could be major or minor ) but with only 5 notes (sometimes with a flattened note for a more "bluesy" sound )

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
Charles
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 25, 2017 - 1:47 pm
Member Since: June 7, 2016
Forum Posts: 293
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jacques said

what are the EXACT scales that people expect to hear from a violin? Feel free to list the actually notes if you'd like including the harmonic tones. (I do think that exists, right?)  

Not sure what you mean by the harmonic tones, but the bigger problem is that there is no one set of scales for what people expect to hear from a violin. Classical probably covers the widest - there are pieces written in just about every key there is. Certain genres, such as country, bluegrass, Irish, etc, may have particular keys that are more common in them than most, but even where that's true, it's only going to be true for that genre. It doesn't apply to "the violin".

Like I said, the three most common keys in music written specifically for the violin are D, A, and G, probably in that order. 

D is F# and C#,

A is F#, C#, and G#,

and G is just F#.

The modes Bill spoke of are an idea the Greeks came up with (which is why the names for all the modes are Greek names).  They take a basic major scale, which has the pattern of 221 2 221 in terms of half steps.  Each mode shifts that pattern one to the left, and puts that interval that got shoved off on the the right of the list, like so:

Ionian (major): ^221 2 221 (the caret shows where the start of the pattern is)

Dorian:              21 2 221 ^2

Phrygian:  1 2 221 ^21

Lydian:  2 221 ^221

Mixolydian: 221 ^221 2

Aeolian (minor): 21 ^221 2 2

Locrian:  1 ^221 2 22

 

There are two ways to use that: start on the tonic note (say, D). That will use a different set of notes as you go up the scale. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_(musical_note) for examples.

The other way is to go up one note for each mode. If you do that, you will play the exact same notes as in the major (aka Ionian) mode, but you will start and end on different notes. Even though it's the same notes as the major, it will sound different to your ear.  (And of course, you're starting on a higher and higher note each time, so that's another difference.)

Those Wikipedia articles have a LOT of good information on possible scales.  You'll have to read up on some music theory (or just play them and see which ones appeal to you) to figure out which ones you might want to incorporate into your music.

There have been some good discussions on this forum about these modes, and which ones sound better for what type of music. Try searching the forum for the names of the individual modes to find them. That may help you find what you're looking for, although I think playing them may do you more good than anything, because you're looking for something that suits your tastes.  (And they're good practice.)  That wikipedia article has the specific notes if the intervals don't work for you.

 

The pentatonic scale is named that because it has 5 notes instead of the usual 7.  You leave out the 4th and the 7th.  The D pentatonic scale would therefore be:

D E F# A B D

The point of a pentatonic scale is that if the main piece is in the key of D, you can play random riffs in the pentatonic D scale, and they will sound good. It harmonizes well with pretty much everything in that key.  (And the same for any other key - play notes from the pentatonic scale for that key and you will fit in easily.)  

Don't ask me why, but apparently, the 4th and 7th notes are the ones that are likely to jar - leave them out and you can play pretty much anything and it will be heard as a pleasant accompaniment to the main piece. It won't stand out much, but it's great for harmonizing/being a background voice.  Anybody who wants to play with others but is concerned about screwing things up for the group should practice pentatonic scales a lot - they make you bland enough to be safe. 🙂 

 

Hope this helps

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
August 25, 2017 - 2:11 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2230
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Nicely described @charlesthumbs-up

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
BillyG
Brora, North-east Scotland
August 25, 2017 - 2:34 pm
Member Since: March 22, 2014
Forum Posts: 2230
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ahhh - pentatonic - strangely enough - that well known tune "Amazing Grace" ( the "original one, not "Pretty Amazing Grace by Neil Diamond.... that's another storyand an awesome studio production IMO ) is actually a pentatonic scale tune.....    go on... pick it out on the black keys of your piano - really - it is - and - you never KNEW you were working with a pentatonic scale....   great !!!!   Enlightenment.... 🙂

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes. D'oh - guntohead.JPG

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
September 22, 2017 - 12:13 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 12734
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Jacques said
Other than D Major, what are the most well suited scales for playing violin?   

G, D, A and E in that order. It's all quite debatable though. 

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
zpilot
Kansas City, Mo.
Advanced member
Members
October 9, 2017 - 12:48 pm
Member Since: September 29, 2017
Forum Posts: 70
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I would add C to that if you are going to be "jamming" with a pianist fairly often.

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 9, 2017 - 1:04 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 12734
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

LOL. No black keys. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: Mac
54 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming kevoxyde, Freq, happyjet, 8r4d

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3978

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2666

Fiddlestix: 2647

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Kevin M.: 1969

cdennyb: 1808

TerryT: 1722

Ferret: 1575

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 2

Members: 7200

Moderators: 0

Admins: 3

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6909

Posts: 86048

Newest Members:

Stevenemurb, DanielMarty, gailgg69, malindapo1, WilliazHen, Liozelroodo

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 12734, KindaScratchy: 1705, BillyG: 2230