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Should I try to memorize ?
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Oliver
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April 28, 2012 - 12:38 pm
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Memorization is not a trick. It internalizes the music for you; it makes the music, somehow, a part of your own physical being. And you can express so much more like that. If you don't see a singer's face and you don't see the posture of a singer, the address of a singer to the audience, you're really not getting what a singer can deliver in music and what composers expected the singers to deliver.[1]

Quote by John Oliver, Director of the Tanglewood, Ma. Chrous.

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Does this apply in principle to the violin?

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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NoirVelours
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April 28, 2012 - 1:56 pm
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I think we do it without realizing it. Like, do I check the notes of Twinkle? Nope, it's memorized, I know where to play whole notes etc. That's why you see pro pianist and violinist who play without music sheet. They practice so often that the song become theirs and then they start making subtle changes to personnalize it. Anyway it feels like that when I see and hear them playing on Youtube lol.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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Fiddlerman
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April 28, 2012 - 3:02 pm
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Memorizing music gives you that much more freedom to make music. Not bound by what you see but what you want to hear. When I worked on a piece for a recital or solo concert I would start out by playing it over and over and it didn't take long for me to memorize it regardless of how hard it is. But then you must start to feel the music and understand the phrasing and why the marked dynamics are marked that way. You can go past that and express the piece with your own phrasing, tempo's and fluctuation.
Playing a piece that you actually feel is so much more enjoyable than purely reading it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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NoirVelours
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April 28, 2012 - 3:06 pm
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It puts a very human fiber in it, otherwise orchestra would be robots playing perfectly but without a soul.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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Oliver
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April 28, 2012 - 3:21 pm
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WHOA    are not orchestras playing off of sheet music ????   N'est pas ?

Those people simply do not have time (rehearsals) to memorize anything.

Or, perhaps, the conductor assumes the chore of artistic interpretation ????

dazed

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NoirVelours
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April 28, 2012 - 4:10 pm
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They are faking! tongue I mean, if they are watching the conductor how can they read music sheet also? Fake! rofl

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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Oliver
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April 28, 2012 - 4:38 pm
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I think we need FM to tell us the truth of the matter dunno

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlestix
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April 28, 2012 - 6:48 pm
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NoirVelours said
They are faking! tongue I mean, if they are watching the conductor how can they read music sheet also? Fake! rofl

Last Saturday, April 21st, there was a live Webcast by the Detroit Symphony Orchastra, from Detroit, Michigan, USA. I posted a web link to it so whoever wanted to watch it, could. It is free and is broadcast worldwide.

 I have alway's thought as NV think's. How could they watch the conductor and read music at the same time. I payed particular attention to just that. When they weren't playing (being at rest) they watched the sheet music and kept glanceing up at the director waiting for their que. I also noticed that while they were playing they would still glance up at the director. Occasionally glancing over at the concertmaster, who sit's in the front row to the director's left and closest to the audience. It happened to be a lady violinist. The piano player also had a lady sitting next to him turning the page's.  There are two musician's to one music stand and the person on the left of the music stand is responsible for turning the pages for the duo. I think. So, it's not fake, they can read the music while watching the director.

The first song they played lasted about 18 minutes. I wonder how those composer's of yesteryear, how they could write part's for all the instrument's in a orchestra.

                                       dunno

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
April 28, 2012 - 11:20 pm
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I'll try to answer all those questions.

We have new repertoire every week so we don't have the music memorized.

I didn't say that we couldn't play musically with the music just that you are free of that reading task and can play more musically without it. So the musician is responsible to play musically even with the music.

The conductor is actually responsible for the artistic interpretation Oliver 🙂 though usually they get credit if everything goes well. When things go badly the orchestra is blamed. LOL

The REAL GOOD musician doesn't glue his eyes to the music, rather looks around and throws an eye at his colleagues and conductor periodically while performing. Traditionally the violinist should look to their right and forward towards the leader. If you are a second violinist you look to your right and try to see the section leaders bow as much as possible otherwise the guy in front or in front to your right. If the second violin section is wrong it's the section leaders fault. You don't try to lead from the back even if the leader is wrong or there can be chaos.

The section leaders should look towards the concert-master. All sections that have the same part should listen to each other and play together.

The concert master is also responsible for the orchestra playing together as well as the conductor. He is allowed to speak to the orchestra and give advise, criticism, and suggestions. He can also advise the conductor but some conductors don't stand for it.

Musicians are able to see the conductors beat while staring at the music in the corner of their eyes though I prefer to have eye contact as much as possible when I play. Even if I am reading a piece I look forward quite a few measures and can easily continue playing for a while without looking at the music. Kind of when you speed read a book or something.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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NoirVelours
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April 28, 2012 - 11:56 pm
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Concertmaster? Conductor? ok who is the chef d'orchestre who holds the stick and what does the other dude do? I never realized there was more then one lol.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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Fiddlerman
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April 29, 2012 - 12:42 am
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Conductor is the guy with the stick NV.

The concertmaster is the no 1 leader of the first violins and via tradition and placement is appointed the leader of the orchestra as well. He also comes in right before the conductor, takes a bow in front of the orchestra, and tunes the orchestra. Most violin solos are played by him.

PS. When I say "him, he" I mean "him, he or her, she" 🙂 It's just easier. Sorry.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Joe
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April 29, 2012 - 4:22 am
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Fiddlerman said

 

PS. When I say "him, he" I mean "him, he or her, she" 🙂 It's just easier. Sorry.

 

Don't be sorry....despite what the oversensitive wacko gender-neutral political-grandstanders say, your lexicon in this instance is correct; HIM fairly represents your intended meaning and is without risk of offense.

Everyone calls ships SHE and Satan is always a HE, for instance; it's traditional usage and correct.  If, however, you referred to a specific person whose gender was female as HE, HIM, or IT -- this would be most decidedly a dreadful mistake.  

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Oliver
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April 29, 2012 - 8:07 am
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Thanks for the insight FM.  A rare look from a member's perspective. 

I would be a bundle of nerves to take on those tasks.

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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Fiddlerman
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April 29, 2012 - 8:13 am
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Thanks Joe,

That's what I meant to say. LOL You said it MUCH better.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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myguitarnow
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April 29, 2012 - 5:52 pm
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Oliver, I have played in front of many big audiences (guitar) and never read any sheet music. I did though jot down some notes on a piece of paper with a sharpy and have that piece of paper by my feet when I didn't Know the song so well. There is only 7 notes on the musical scale. Sometimes you play them sharp or flat depending on the feel of the song. Yes memorize the songs!

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Oliver
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April 29, 2012 - 6:51 pm
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I'm sure that memorizing can be very useful but I had an epiphany tonight.

I was watching a local TV bluegrass/country group and I am always impressed by the repertoire that these folks can play.  But then the guy introducing the group said "and here they are with over 1000 appearances!" 

I'm afraid it's going to take a while for me to catch up but I will see what I can do.violin-student

coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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TerryT
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April 29, 2012 - 8:07 pm
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Oliver said

I'm sure that memorizing can be very useful but I had an epiphany tonight.

I was watching a local TV bluegrass/country group and I am always impressed by the repertoire that these folks can play.  But then the guy introducing the group said "and here they are with over 1000 appearances!" 

I'm afraid it's going to take a while for me to catch up but I will see what I can do.violin-student

coffee2

Imagine! 1000 performances!
Each? Or as a combined total I wonder
dazed

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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Oliver
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April 29, 2012 - 9:37 pm
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I'm sure that the reference was to the group.  1000 performances for the group.

If they did 100 shows per year, that would only be 10 years which is a believable time table.

dazed

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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