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Third position fingering
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gomubukai
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December 13, 2014 - 5:03 pm
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Hi everyone!

I'm brand new here - and am really excited to find this forum. I'm 27 and live in Australia and have been taking violin lessons for 1 and a half years.

I thought I started quite late as a lot of my teacher's students are primary school age - but after looking through the forum posts this morning, I'm amazed (and heartened) to see so many people taking up music as adults. 

My teacher tells me that my progress up until now has been very good, but it is hard to know what to expect when I don't know anyone in real life who plays violin and I occasionally get very frustrated with myself when I feel like I have not made any progress in several weeks.

Hopefully these forums will give me a little more perspective on what to expect in terms of progress as an adult learner and I can go a little easier on myself. =)  

ANYWAY, long story long... 

I've been using the amazing fingering chart for first position I found on this site about 6 months ago and it's really helped a lot with my sight reading and intonation!  

But now, my teacher has started me on shifting to third position and I am having a lot of trouble knowing exactly what the finger pattern is supposed to be and remembering which key signature has which pattern. 

Does anyone know of a chart similar to the first position one that lives on this site for third position? Or does anyone have any suggestions for how I can improve my third position shifting and fingering?

Thanks everyone!

=)

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TerryT
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December 13, 2014 - 6:23 pm
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Welcome to the forum. 

There is a fingerboard chart somewhere that shows fingerings for 1st and 3rd position. I'll see if I can find it

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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coolpinkone
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December 13, 2014 - 7:16 pm
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Welcome to the forum.  I can feel your excitement!

Happy shifting... Good luck to you!!

Toni

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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Schaick
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December 14, 2014 - 7:47 pm
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I am just starting to learn about shifting because of the songs Maiden's Prayer, Fiddlerman's version of Amazing Grace and Be Thou My Vision.

What I recently learned is that 3rd position starts where your 3rd finger is at first position. I have been learning note positions mostly by sound and not so much by position of fingers.

Interesting that we are approaching position changes at about the same time of our life with violins.  I have been playing violin for just over a 1 1/2 years and am 59.  I have had 5 Suzuki lessons and 2 Bluegrass lessons!!  I can't wait to have another lesson!!

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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Tucson1
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December 14, 2014 - 10:24 pm
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Hey ,

You'll find 2nd , 3rd , 4th and 5th position under advanced tutorials on the right side of this page ...

I'm playing a tune that starts out in third but ya can also play those 3rd position notes in 1st if ya want , it just sets ya up better fer what's coming and sounds sweeter in 3rd ...can always learn those lines in 1st 'till ya have it down , then go back and switch to 3rd fer the notes ya want ...just sayin ...

Have fun and don't sweat the bumps in the road ...violin-1267

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Mark
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December 14, 2014 - 11:27 pm
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Welcome to the forum,

Sounds like several of us (me included) that are starting to shift and feel our way around the rest of  the neckdancing 

Good luck on your fiddling journy.

 

Mark

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Jacques
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December 14, 2014 - 11:58 pm
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You can perform a scale by playing an E on the Gstring, and then play open D while shifting back up to first position and playing C,B,A on the Gstring.

 

To advance this scale - you can simply play that in reverse, and continue by playing F & G on the Dstring, then open A, and finally B on the Dstring.

Continue on and and you will have a nice scale for first and second/third position.

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Kiara
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December 15, 2014 - 12:30 am
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Woohoo, another Aussie! aussie_flag

Welcome to the forum Kelly.

Sorry I don't have a chart but one thing I can say with shifting to different positions is just practice practice practice. It takes a while to feel comfortable in a new position but I'm sure you'll work it out. :)

Kiara

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BillyG
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December 15, 2014 - 2:22 am
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Welcome, Kelly !

Ahh - I found this - then noticed Tucs had already pointed it out - anyway - here's FM's link - http://fiddlerman.com/tutorial.....he-violin/ and another page I found useful was this - http://www.violinonline.com/fi.....vanced.htm and there is also this one as well which is a kind of "neck diagram" showing both note names and fingers - http://brebru.com/violin/v5/v5a.html

I'm only "experimenting" with these at the moment - I kind-of-know where to "find a note" and have really just started on the journey - I need to "do it properly" rather than in an "ad-hoc" manner which can only lead to bad habits !  LOL

Glad to have you aboard, Have fun!

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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gomubukai
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December 15, 2014 - 5:47 am
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Wow! What a welcome - I can't believe how many people replied :)  

Thanks for all the advice everyone - I'll use some of the suggestions and will look at the links and I'll let you guys know how I go. 

I have about 6 weeks off lessons as my teacher is taking holidays and it would be great to get this cemented a little better before I go back. So I think the advice I get on this forum is going to be invaluable. :)

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Fiddlerman
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December 17, 2014 - 11:54 pm
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Welcome to the forum gomubukai.
I suppose it's easy enough to make a 3rd position chart if you can't find one. For now, just replace 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 with 2, 3, 4, 1, 2 in 3rd position on the string beneath. Makes sense?

@ Jacques, I don't understand what you suggested. Any note can be played with any finger thus your explanation is incomplete. Play a scale starting with the E on the G with which finger? etc. etc.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Jacques
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December 18, 2014 - 2:25 am
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@fiddlerguy

I tend to use second position in this scale in order to reach the E,B,& F (Fourth Finger) to play after every open string, but with one exception: the initial First Finger A on the G string.

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Fiddlerman
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December 18, 2014 - 2:28 pm
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Gotcha

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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gomubukai
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December 20, 2014 - 4:22 am
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Hey everyone 

I'm still a little stuck on this... @fiddlerguy that chart does make sense. Really good sense actually so I'lll definitely make one up for myself. Thank you for that! :)

The thing I'm struggling with most in third position is the finger pattern - that is, which fingers are close to each other and which are further away depending on the key I'm in. 

I don't know my violin well enough and I haven't trained my ear quite well enough yet to know what the notes are SUPPOSED to sound like - so it feels like I'm guessing where my fingers are supposed to go rather than placing my fingers and listening for queues like 'ringing' notes to help me know if I have it right. 

Intonation is hard... :p

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mischa91
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December 20, 2014 - 9:02 am
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Welcome!  I'm also tackling shifting round on the violin at the minute, I got a book called essential technique for strings: violin book 3.  I searched around in the store and picked this one, it has pictures of the neck and where to put your fingers and then exercises to practice with.  I'm not sure if you could get this book where you are but it's great.  I'll also have to find the charts From this site, I haven't seen those yet.

 

Good luck with your playing!  

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Fiddlerman
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December 20, 2014 - 10:07 pm
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gomubukai said
............The thing I'm struggling with most in third position is the finger pattern - that is, which fingers are close to each other and which are further away depending on the key I'm in.........

The patterns are the same in third position. A major scale has 2 whole steps 1 half 3 whole and 1 half

whole whole half whole whole whole half

A natural minor scale consists of whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole.....
There are different types of minor scales though.

It's all about getting so used to these patterns that they automatically work no matter which key you use. The patterns change or course depending on the key and scale which does make it difficult and confusing at first.

Concentrate on a few common scales for now. :)

Play an A major scale starting on the G string in 1st position. Use your 4th finger instead of open strings. Then play a C major scale on the G strarting in 3rd position starting on with your first finger just as you did with the A major scale. It'll be a different scale but the patterns will be the same. Also your fingers will need to be "slighly" closer to each other.

Good luck!!!

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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