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Tuning
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RossTiger
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January 17, 2013 - 3:16 pm
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I've been trying to tune my violin using the tuning helper Mr Fiddlerman has generously provided, but I just haven't got an ear for the sounds :( I hope this isn't going to be a long term problem, I just can't seem to match up what I play and the sounds from the tuner. Is this something that comes in time?

 

Thinking of picking up an electronic tuner so I can at least practice in tune, but wondering if it's a bit of a lazy way out?

 

Thanks

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DanielB
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January 17, 2013 - 3:56 pm
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This is music, RossTiger.  Cheat whenever you can.

LOL

 

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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Mad_Wed
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January 17, 2013 - 4:50 pm
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In that case, use the electronic tuner definitelly! Take your time to remember the "right tone". I'd recommend to use the tuner to tune your violin and then compare with Fiddlerman's tuner which produces the tone - so You'll be able to HEAR the proper sound. If You'll have time - do it several times a day. I believe that You'll be able to correct the tuning with Fiddlerman's or other tone-producing tuner very soon after that. Everything comes with practice! I thought i could never tune violin with open strings only, using just a fork for A, LOL!

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screeeech
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January 17, 2013 - 10:27 pm
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It comes with time and exposure. You will get your musical ear!

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Steve
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January 18, 2013 - 12:44 am
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I personally am not able to use the Fiddlerman online tuner. For one thing it has what sounds like vibrato on it--how can anyone tune to a reference pitch that has a wavering tone? Second, it's 20-30 cents sharp on all four notes, according to the several electronic tuners I have. There are other online tuners that I've tried that give a steady pure tone for tuning, which I can tune with, and those are also right on pitch, according to my several electronic tuners. (At first I thought my computer sound card was the problem until I tried other online tuners.)

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DanielB
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January 18, 2013 - 1:17 am
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I would have trouble using the tuner on the site for the same reasons.  I believe it is at A 443 rather than A 440, and the vibrato certainly doesn't help.  LOL

I never needed it, since I already had tuners for years before getting a violin, and have other instruments in the house. 

Other folks seem to manage ok with the FM tuner, though, so I usually don't mention it.  It sounds like it may be midi files, and apparently the midi idea of violin includes constant vibrato.  That's just a guess, though.

 

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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suresh
Tuticorin, India
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January 18, 2013 - 4:17 am
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You can try this.

http://www.seventhstring.com/t.....tuner.html (courtesy Kevin M)

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
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January 18, 2013 - 6:31 am
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I also find the Fiddlerman tuner hard to use due to the vibrato, so this is what I use. I save it in my favorite place's for easy access.

http://www.get-tuned.com/onlin....._tuner.php

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 18, 2013 - 9:11 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
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That reminds me. I should fix that. I used Finale 2008 I think to make those tones on the tuner and I choose all the settings to get a straight tone but that darn vibrato keeps playing. I even showed it to a friend of mine who uses Finale like crazy but we couldn't get rid of it. I could have found an alternative but was anxious to upload the tuner and never got back to it. I'll try to create the tones using Finale 2012 which I now own instead. When I made the tuner I was thinking that I'd just fix it later but now later has been a long time. LOL
Thanks for the reminder guys.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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VinceKnight
Middlfield, Ohio
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January 18, 2013 - 10:20 am
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FM

So you know according to my Sona Clip Tuner set to 440 all but the C string, on the Viola Tuner, are set at 5-10 cents high.  C is dead on but the others are a bit off.

 

-Dennis

The pack depends upon the wolf, and the wolf depends upon the pack. The loss of one means the destruction of the other.

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DanielB
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January 18, 2013 - 1:07 pm
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If you just want pure tones, Pierre, they're easy to get (even for a 443 tuning).  The waveform of a violin is approximately a sawtooth wave, and I or other folks in the community here could whip off a set for you.  What length and file format do you need them to be?  

 

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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RossTiger
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January 18, 2013 - 3:42 pm
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Thanks for the advice everyone.

I'm going to get an electronic tuner from my local music shop so I can at least practice with a violin in tune, no point getting used to something out of tune haha

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Mt. Fiddler
Adirondacks, NY
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January 18, 2013 - 3:54 pm
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Hi folks, another hillbilly idea from the mountains... a telephone dial tone is just about the F note, so that could be a handy reference one day.

 

Mr. Fiddlerwink

 

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MikeV
Wisconsin
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January 18, 2013 - 4:01 pm
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I didn't know hillbillies had Telephones!
blink
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"The dictionary is the only place where success comes before work." - Mark Twain

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DanielB
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January 19, 2013 - 7:08 am
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Actually, in the US it is a combination of two tones being played together, A 440 and 350 Hz, which is just a teeny bit sharp from an F, in standard tuning.  Close enough that nobody would ever be likely to hear the difference, though.

Getting your A off the nearest phone is a "sneaky old musician trick", at least in the US.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
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January 19, 2013 - 11:32 am
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I tried using an electronic tuner and found that there had to be absolute silence in order to get the tone exact. It could even pick up the sound when my furnace came on.  IMO.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 20, 2013 - 3:13 pm
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Dennis - Do you mean to say that when you received the viola from Fiddlershop, it was tuned that way. That is incredible that it kept it's intonation on the journey to you. In any case, tuning an instrument is something you need to do often. smile
I tune mine every year.

LOL, just kidding, sometimes after every piece. The strings kind of get stretched and pulled and get affected by weather changes as well. I could theoretically get away with not tuning for hours but I want it to be perfect.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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VinceKnight
Middlfield, Ohio
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January 20, 2013 - 5:26 pm
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Actually Pierre coming out of the box I don't think any string was more than 20 cents off.  But the Viola Tuner on Violaman.com is actually what I was referring to :)

And I usually check my Tune about every couple hours unless my ear starts to think something is wrong then I check it sooner.

 

I have to say this 600 is mellowing in very nicely already!

 

-Dennis

The pack depends upon the wolf, and the wolf depends upon the pack. The loss of one means the destruction of the other.

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Composer
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January 21, 2013 - 2:38 am
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"Is this something that comes in time?"

Not really because its natural to just look at the display on the electronic tuner every time you play a note.  This cheating never stops. 

The way out of the Tuner dependency problem is to place your electronic tuner in front of a webcam and record yourself playing a scale while not looking at the tuner display.  While playing each note slowly, say out loud whether its slightly flat or sharp, correct, or a different note altogether.  Then go and play back the video to see if you were right.

I think you also have to practice becoming interval aware...at least with 4ths, 5ths, and octaves in order to tune the scale properly in the first place.  Otherwise you just get stuck in a rut memorizing a sequence of tones and have no understanding of the function and relationship between notes.

The flip side of this ear problem is the physical problem of landing the finger accurately each time.  The ear knows its wrong, but some notes are always slightly off despite running through the scale a million times. 

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 21, 2013 - 6:55 am
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Now I got you. I am sure I know why. I used the same notes from Fiddlerman.com which I probably set for 442 or 443 then I worked on the viola tuner and had to add the C and probably forgot to set it at 440. I'll fix that at the same time as I change the tones to non-vibrato notes. smile
Thanks for catching that.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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