DanielB said
Not everyone is inclined to conformity.  With orchestral/symphony genre music, that can result in people considering it a "closed door" when it comes to their choices of how to develop musically.

In a public school, if it was the only way offered to learn instrumental music or if some of the facilities are not open to those who are doing music but not necessarily orchestral music, then I would agree with cdennyb that it could possibly become a form of discrimination.  Closing doors to those students who wish to learn shouldn't be what a public elementary/high school does, IMO.

A *professional* orchestra or symphony might be a different matter.  Clients/patrons may not be particularly interested in a certain look to the show.  Or even in a school environment, if a group of students elect to form a period chamber music group or something, it would be understandable that they might opt for clothing and instruments which keep a period appearance.

But if the only way to learn basic instrumental musical skills is via the school "orchestra", and there is more worry about what color socks everyone wears than how they play, how is that an educational advantage?

Conformity is not to everyone's nature.  And the attitude that it is an absolute "must" for some kinds of music is a large part of why some of us never even start exploring some genres.  Silly as it may seem at first, what use is there in working to learn something like classical if you'd never get to play it without having to wear a "monkey suit"?  Music should be about sound.  But whether or not you get to play it can end up being more a matter of someone else's sense of fashion and propriety.  I think that in a more perfect world, people (and especially children eager to learn music in a public school environment) shouldn't be limited by that.  IMO.

 

 

Not everyone is inclined to conformity.  With orchestral/symphony genre music, that can result in people considering it a "closed door" when it comes to their choices of how to develop musically. In a public school, if it was the only way offered to learn instrumental music or if some of the facilities are not open to those who are doing music but not necessarily orchestral music, then I would agree with cdennyb that it could possibly become a form of discrimination.  Closing doors to those students who wish to learn shouldn't be what a public elementary/high school does, IMO. A *professional* orchestra or symphony might be a different matter.  Clients/patrons may not be particularly interested in a certain look to the show.  Or even in a school environment, if a group of students elect to form a period chamber music group or something, it would be understandable that they might opt for clothing and instruments which keep a period appearance. But if the only way to learn basic instrumental musical skills is via the school "orchestra", and there is more worry about what color socks everyone wears than how they play, how is that an educational advantage? Conformity is not to everyone's nature.  And the attitude that it is an absolute "must" for some kinds of music is a large part of why some of us never even start exploring some genres.  Silly as it may seem at first, what use is there in working to learn something like classical if you'd never get to play it without having to wear a "monkey suit"?  Music should be about sound.  But whether or not you get to play it can end up being more a matter of someone else's sense of fashion and propriety.  I think that in a more perfect world, people (and especially children eager to learn music in a public school environment) shouldn't be limited by that.  IMO.    

Non-conformity is fine when  there is a time, place, and reason for it.  An orchestra is not the place for non-conformity. Everyone in an orchestra is important, everyone has an important part to play and, in order to create beautiful music an orchestra must work together, not just musically but in the way it presents itself to it's audience. In order to work all members have to compromise and agree to certain criteria and standards. This may include the type of instruments that members play, and even the way that members dr

DanielB said
Not everyone is inclined to conformity.  With orchestral/symphony genre music, that can result in people considering it a "closed door" when it comes to their choices of how to develop musically.

In a public school, if it was the only way offered to learn instrumental music or if some of the facilities are not open to those who are doing music but not necessarily orchestral music, then I would agree with cdennyb that it could possibly become a form of discrimination.  Closing doors to those students who wish to learn shouldn't be what a public elementary/high school does, IMO.

A *professional* orchestra or symphony might be a different matter.  Clients/patrons may not be particularly interested in a certain look to the show.  Or even in a school environment, if a group of students elect to form a period chamber music group or something, it would be understandable that they might opt for clothing and instruments which keep a period appearance.

But if the only way to learn basic instrumental musical skills is via the school "orchestra", and there is more worry about what color socks everyone wears than how they play, how is that an educational advantage?

Conformity is not to everyone's nature.  And the attitude that it is an absolute "must" for some kinds of music is a large part of why some of us never even start exploring some genres.  Silly as it may seem at first, what use is there in working to learn something like classical if you'd never get to play it without having to wear a "monkey suit"?  Music should be about sound.  But whether or not you get to play it can end up being more a matter of someone else's sense of fashion and propriety.  I think that in a more perfect world, people (and especially children eager to learn music in a public school environment) shouldn't be limited by that.  IMO.

I understand your point but everyone who plays in an orchestra has an important musical role to fill as well as his/her role as an orchestra member..  Everyone plays an important part regardless of what musical instrument they play and regardless of how complex or simple their part in the orchestra might be. The goal of an orchestra is that everyone plays their part to the best of their ability and makes beautiful music that others enjoy. And the reward is the deep sense of fullfillment, satisfaction and contribution that each member gives and receives when they play. Not to mention the learning experience that one receives through participation regardless of skill level and regardless of whether its an amateur or professional orchestra. . So my take on it is that why should one deny themselves that opportunity and the beautiful and rewarding experience that comes with it simply because they may have to comply with certain criteria regarding appearance, instrument type, etc. I may feel more comfortable playing the violin in jeans and a tee shirt and that may be fine when I am practicing at home or when I am in a rehearsal. But in concert it is not and although I might be more comfortable in jeans and a tee shirt and slippers at a concert but I don;t find it much of an issue to comply with proper concert attire and put on a clean black button down shirt, a pair of black slacks, matching socks and a pair of shoes. It may not be as comfortable as jeans and a tee but I see it as a small sacrafice to make in the name of what we have to offer to our audience and the reward and satisfaction of sitting together with a wonderful group of people and making music that others will enjoy and remember and bring some happiness to their lives. After all, that is the goal of the orchestra and each member plays a critical role in accomplishing that goal. No one member is more important than another. Rather everyone works together "in concert". It is in that same vein of thought that I feel that what the school orchestra requested is not unreasonable.  Sure it is sometimes nice to do it your own way, but there is an approprate time and place for that. The school in question did indeed offer the student an option, they did not tell her she cannot play or bar her from the orchestra.  If anything I think her parents did her a disservice. They should have rented or bought her an instrument which meets the criteria for what is acceptable in that particular orchestra and let it go at that. 

When I was a child, I was told I wasn't going to be able to play the trumpet, but I could play the violin like my sisters.

Matt,

That really sounds like a plan because I like playing the violin, but I don't necessarily love classical music. I like some of it, but not most of it.

I used to like playing in an orchestra because I like the sound of being in an orchestra as a youth. After 45 years I have difficulty being in an orchestra, and it may be because I lost a little hearing in my right ear.