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OPEN SALAMONE
I have opened my Italian Bowl Back Mandolin and have posted its picture
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
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Raywells
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October 6, 2014 - 10:40 am
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Hello Folks

Below you should find a picture of the open mandolin.

open-salamone-v.jpgImage Enlarger

 I guess I am a bit surprised at how coarse the underside of the top seemed. It is well that I opened the top and was able to look at the seams of the bowl with a strong light behind because there are a few more seams that need attention than were apparent from the outside. I trust that when I re-apply the top to the bowl, hide glue will be in order.

 Anyway we are proceeding.

Ray

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coolpinkone
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October 6, 2014 - 1:10 pm
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What a great photo Ray.  Thanks for Sharing.

Excited to see how you make the repairs and hear you playing you new baby. 

:)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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Tucson1
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October 6, 2014 - 6:12 pm
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Cool beans , Ray ...

Time to put in some inside edge linings fer more top support ?

You'll be up and running soon ...violin-1267Have fun    Be happy

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cdennyb
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October 6, 2014 - 8:11 pm
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I would think that adding "anything" to the inside whether you thought it would help or not would affect the sound and probably not in a good way.

I'd go back all original, including the glue.

Nice project... keep the pics coming.thumbs-up

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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cdennyb
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October 6, 2014 - 8:18 pm
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Is there a rib missing from this location I've outlined in the picture Ray?open-salamone-v-question.jpgImage Enlarger

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"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Raywells
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October 6, 2014 - 8:32 pm
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@cdennyb The line you see is the underside of the "cant". The underside of the top is scored across the underside of the top. The heal of the top is bend downward to get an angle behind the bridge. The new centerline is glued and in this case reinforced to prevent splitting. http://www.mandolinluthier.com.....ndex.htm  is the site of the luthier I am consulting. He explains that for a period of 40 years the mandolin was THE instrument and they cranked them out as fast as possible. Mine was a lesser builder who didnt use linings weather for cost, time or sonic vibration reasons. "Dave" suggests putting them in for structural reasons.

Ray

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Tucson1
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October 7, 2014 - 12:18 am
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Hey Ray ,

I understand Denny's view on repairs but yer luthier's advice is valid as well ...taterbugs are very forgiving in construction technique vs sound / tone production and like many stringed instruments can be fine tuned with string selection ...just sayin'

I do recommend the Ernie Ball lite strings 9 , 13 , 22 , 34 ...also just sayin'

Sooo ...who wants to see more taterbug repair pics ?   That's kinda like askin' who wants ice cream ....violin-1267As far as glue goes ? Yer taterbug ..yer choice ...I'm sure ya know of the three basic gram weight strength indicators fer hide glue vs the qualities of other glues ...do what ya do ....IMG_2095.JPGImage Enlarger

 IMG_2085.JPGImage Enlarger

 IMG_2084.JPGImage Enlarger

 IMG_2083.JPGImage Enlarger

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Raywells
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October 7, 2014 - 4:16 pm
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Thanks for looking in Tucs and thanks for your pictures. I note the similarities of construction and the differences. Yours has a reinforcement of the crease in the top, a smaller brace on the centerline. Yours appears to have no reinforcement underside of the neck end. also yours seems have a more definite edge beyond the ends of the braces. I think I will have to use some veneer to create an edge if only to have someplace to glue the edging. I will follow my luthiers advice and use Titebond to fit the top, I have hide glue but it sets up so fast. I will need more time and Tite Bond will give that AND a secure glue job.

Ray

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Raywells
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October 8, 2014 - 10:42 am
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I have rebuilt the underside of the top to provide a more uniform gluing surface. It will also give me a consistent edge upon which to install the decorative and protective edge, probably ebony and maple lozenges in lieu of Mother Of Pearl and Tortoise Shell.

re-edged-inside.jpgImage Enlarger

 loose-fit.jpgImage Enlarger

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Uzi
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October 8, 2014 - 1:36 pm
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Ray, 

I use Titebond for making native american flutes, it holds really, really well -- perhaps too well?  I thought the reason for using hide glue was that later you could take the top off if needed. 

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. ~Herm Albright

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Raywells
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October 8, 2014 - 3:33 pm
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@Uzi, thanks for dropping by. The orthodox position for violin luthiery IS to use hide glue and there seem to be frequent enough repairs to violins to warrant using reversible hide glue in lieu of having a zipper built in. I guess I am a dyed in the wool progressive in these matters. I have repaired two tops / bottoms-off violins using hide glue and it was always a rush getting things in the exactly right place for close up within the setup time of the glue. At 70 yrs of age I don't intend to open this instrument again and I will reassemble it as accurately and skillfully as I am able. Titebond will allow me the time to fit the top, square things up and wrap the elastic strap clamping, multiple times around this oddly shaped instrument in a way that has never been necessary for violins. Besides have you seen the price of some of the fancy clamps for violins. :-(    I was ask on line if I was a luthier and answered no I am just a person too frugal (poor or cheap) to pay someone else to do it. LOL

Ray

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cdennyb
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October 8, 2014 - 7:02 pm
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Oh come on now Ray, don't you be usin' that old age stuff as a way to settle for the modern methods. Stick to the ol' ways and do it like you know you want to. Ha.

LOLtongue

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Raywells
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October 15, 2014 - 1:43 pm
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One of the tasks in restoring this mandolin to its former glory is to restore the missing edging.

Bridge.jpgImage Enlarger

 Mother Of Pearl will not be shipped out of the USA and other suppliers want me to buy a sheet larger than the mandolin.  Tortoise Shell is prohibited as it should be and again a sheet of artificial celluloid type material is somewhat expensive for the amount I need.V-slicing.jpgImage Enlarger

 Edging-1.jpgImage Enlarger

 So I have found a source of shell in a beading store for a few dollars and a similar low cost source of 25Cent piece sized fake Tortoise Shell and I am devising ways to cut the material to the sizes I need. You can see my razor saw in position as I double my supply of Fake Tortoise shell by slicing a piece through the middle after cutting a slice off the circle.

The sliced shell and the sliced Tortoise will need to be cut to approximately 4-5 mm in length and the ends beveled so they can fit the curve of the edge. The light and dark pieces with the beveled edges are some of the original MOP and Tortoise Shell edging that will be reinstalled with modern renderings in the remaining spaces. These small tasks help fill the time as I wait for Linings and Rubber bands to arrive from StewMac

OCTAVERAY

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Fiddlerman
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October 16, 2014 - 9:16 am
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Way to use your imagination Ray. Good job.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Raywells
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October 22, 2014 - 3:05 pm
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Linings have arrived and been installed so here are some pictures

clamping-linings-1.jpgclamping-linings-2.jpg

 Then after a few hours when the glue is set the high tech clamps are removed.linings-revealed.jpgImage Enlarger

 I have also refined my search for edging material and fully engaged my imagination and found celluloid picks at the music store that are fake Mother of Pearl and Tortoise.

 

Fake-MOP-Tortoise.jpgImage EnlargerStay tuned for final shots of top fitting.

Octave Ray

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Fiddlerman
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October 23, 2014 - 6:31 pm
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Cool. Love the high tech clamps. ROFL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Raywells
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October 24, 2014 - 11:49 am
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http://www.youtube.com/edit?vi.....gioU9XeIlw

My Bowl Back Mandolin is assembled .. The Fingerboard will need to be removed and placed on a graduated shim that will have all strings at all frets needing less than 2mm of depression to sound the note. Presently String height above the frets varies from 1mm at fret 1 to 5.5mm at fret 11 through fret 17.  Some pictures belowAssembled.jpgImage Enlarger

 Dip1.jpgImage Enlarger

 Dip2.jpgImage Enlarger

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Fiddlerman
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October 24, 2014 - 2:30 pm
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Bravo Raymond :) thumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-upthumbs-up

Enjoy this thread very much.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Uzi
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October 24, 2014 - 3:19 pm
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Awesome.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. ~Herm Albright

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Raywells
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October 25, 2014 - 8:30 pm
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NEXT EPISODE: Removing the Fingerboard

The finger board is off and it did not remain intact, at least 3x as many pieces as the 16 frets. The Finger Board turned out to be less than 2mm thick with a cut about 1mm for each fret wire. A combination of alcohol and heat from a flat iron, softened the glue to ease removal but almost every fret and fret wire came off individually.

Not to worry however, for less than $50, including postage, I will get a new slotted Rosewood mandolin fingerboard, new fret material sized for the slots, and a new bone nut blank. The advertised thickness of the new FB should almost eliminate the need for a shim and leave me with 2mm or less space between strings and frets. I have a local luthier I can call upon for final fret dressing and setup without breaking the bank.

Antique Italian Mandolin Finger board

FB-XXX.jpgImage Enlarger

 Neck Without Finger Board (See my label inside?)FB-gone1.jpgImage Enlarger

 FB-Gone-CU.jpgImage Enlarger

 Close-up of neck, notice similarity in the grain of the neck and the top of the mandolin, I think they are both spruce ... maybe a harder wood on the bottom side of the neck but no truss rod in this instrument hence the need for ultra-light strings.

The adventure continues

Octave Ray

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