FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Bow Tilt
Bow tilt, over tilt, flat bowing.. etc
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
Members

Regulars
July 17, 2014 - 4:36 pm
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 3755
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Wow.. after getting some feedback on my WICKED bow tilt.  I have spent the morning on research.  I know sometimes this has been covered in chat or even on the forum. But you know sometimes it doesn't hit home or stick.. until it is the right time.

Anyway.. I have been bowing so wrong now for 6-9 months!!! Perhaps longer.  And I see where I took some good advice from a friend because I had a different issue at the time and a slight bow tilt helped... the issue at the time... volume? or I can't recall.

Some how I have only used the side of my bow for a long time.. this has lead to problems.  Based on this wicked tilt, my pinky was always flying off the stick... and my bow had no grip.. it has been flying all over the strings.  So my efforts to bow straighter and hold the bow more properly were being hindered by the wicked angle that would not support the tips and advice I was trying... 

ACK... it is a good thing.. but it is also kind off frustrating... but  I can say that when I played last night.. I heard my REAL violins voice... and I think there is going to be a big change.

HERE Is a tip I snagged on line at this place.. (so I am not stealing) http://www.sheilascorner.com/b.....whelp.html

ILT - I'd say *soloists* of the old order who actively tilt their bow are in the minority. One needs projection, and to do that...you need that hair flat. OTOH, you can also create projection by tilting the bow and moving the bow at incredible speed...the tilt is so the bow won't hop...not really for tonal reasons...although having less hair on the string allows what remaining hair is left to grab the string easier. 
Orchestra members will oftentimes tilt their bow not for superior sound, but to diminish their sound...or to allow their sound to become white and blend with others. 
Thoughts on tilting the bow - The whole spread fingers idea is to distribute the weight over a larger area...thereby allowing more weight into the bow. If one focuses weight at narrow points...it is that much easier to crush the sound...or at least lose the "roundness" of the sound. This works in theory at least. Galamian advocated a "spread finger" bow hold. However, in practice, abnormally spreading the fingers will create an ever so slight (or gross) strain on the hand. Not good. When Midori was young, she spread the fingers a la Galamian, but like many others, she dropped that style. 

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
Barry
Members

Regulars
July 17, 2014 - 6:24 pm
Member Since: June 30, 2011
Forum Posts: 2661
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Glad youre working the problem thumbs-up

There is no shame in playing twinkle, youre playing Mozart

Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
Members

Regulars
July 17, 2014 - 6:34 pm
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 3755
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks BARRY... I Mean. THANK YOU..... I am literally Jone-sing at my desk to get out of here. Ha ha even trying to make the most simple dinner so I have more time.  AND I am off work tomorrow!!!!! dancinbunnydancingbunny_pole_dancerexactlyviolin_girlcheerleader

So I can play.. record.. practice.. and really have the best practice day.   Barry, if I can send you some samples of it (if you don't mind) I will see what you think.

I meet with my jam partner so she can check it out on Tuesday and see what she thinks of what I was doing and what I am doing now.  

I think back in the day I was bowing as a newby and I felt the flat bowing was scratchy and my other violin partner said, bow on the edge a bit.....but over time I took it as ALWAYS bow on the edge.  Little voices in my head always saying.."why so much hair if I only use a few."  And then WHY did the rosin pattern on my violin start building up very odd?  And why does rosin not seem to even make a difference?

Last night I had rosin flying all over the place.. in a good way... just I can't tell you the break through man. :)

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
Barry
Members

Regulars
July 17, 2014 - 7:21 pm
Member Since: June 30, 2011
Forum Posts: 2661
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

of course you can send me samples, anytime, you dont have to ask thumbs-up

There is no shame in playing twinkle, youre playing Mozart

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
July 17, 2014 - 8:57 pm
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

coolpinkone said
HERE Is a tip I snagged on line at this place.. (so I am not stealing) http://www.sheilascorner.com/b.....whelp.html

...
  Galamian advocated a "spread finger" bow hold. However, in practice, abnormally spreading the fingers will create an ever so slight (or gross) strain on the hand. Not good. When Midori was young, she spread the fingers a la Galamian, but like many others, she dropped that style. 

I don't find that claim about Galamian to be consistent with his Principles of Violin Playing and Teaching.

I find these quotes there:

"The fourth finger is placed on the stick rather close to the third finger."

"The fourth finger is placed close enough to the third finger that a slight curve forms at each joint.  If it is stretched too far out toward the end of the stick, the curves cannot form, and it becomes stiff and rigid, losing thereby its springlike action.  This fourth finger can also become "locked " by curving too much and by being set too close to the third finger."

"The four fingers on top of the bow stick should rest there with the same slight distance between them that is natural when the hand hangs loosely suspended from the wrist and completely relaxed.  The single exception to this is that the first finger may be set very slightly away from the second finger."

"Placed in this fashion, the fingers control a larger part of the bow and give a more secure hold on it.  Placed too far apart, they can stiffen the entire hand.  Placed too close together, they lessen the control and, when pressure is added, the sound will have a tendency to become strident.  The worst mistake of all is to press the fingers against each other, thus creating a great deal of unnatural and useless tension."

"The correct bow grip must be a comfortable one ..."

Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
Members

Regulars
July 18, 2014 - 1:59 am
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 3755
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

violin-1267violin-1267Very nice Rosined.  Good points.  You never know who is going to misquote or over time a view gets distorted. I know you have the book and can verify against "Internet claims".. Cuz you are col like that!  Smooch.

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
Tucson1
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
August 6, 2014 - 2:28 am
Member Since: September 19, 2013
Forum Posts: 234
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hey Toni , Folks .,

 If ya lay yer bow on a string and yer bow is tilted towards yer body just rotate the bow in yer fingers away from yer body and you'll be bowing flat , getting more sound from yer instrument than playing on the edge of the hair , but there's a bit more to it than that ...remember to bow away from yer body as well ....

So , how would i possibly have any insight into this factor ? Been there , done that ..and corrected by a good teacher ...

Have fun , be happy ...violin-1267

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
August 6, 2014 - 5:48 am
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Toni @coolpinkone

Here is a vid on the topic :) Good advise I think

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
coolpinkone
California, the place of my heart
Members

Regulars
August 6, 2014 - 1:02 pm
Member Since: January 11, 2012
Forum Posts: 3755
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Ferret Thank you.  I agree.  I find that useful!

Awesome.

violin-1267

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

Avatar
johnnyblaze
Rhode Island
Advanced member
Members
August 14, 2014 - 7:14 pm
Member Since: September 13, 2013
Forum Posts: 65
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Great topic i was wondering on this i feel i tilt to much alsothumbs-up

 

~Blaze

Avatar
SecondFiddle
Members
August 14, 2014 - 7:56 pm
Member Since: March 30, 2014
Forum Posts: 81
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks for posting about this, this isn't something I do (at least I don't think), but I see people in videos I watch tilt their bows all the time and I was wondering if keeping it flat was "doing it wrong."  Now I know what it's for and when is a good time to do it!

Avatar
EricBluegrassFiddle
Members

Regulars
August 19, 2014 - 11:09 am
Member Since: August 18, 2014
Forum Posts: 183
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

This is an interesting topic: By "tilt" do you mean playing on the edge of the hair as opposed to the pulling down or pushing the bow up on the flattened hairs? I've heard that their are instances where tilting the bow somewhat can help in producing certain sounds. For example, I've heard some instructors say to tilt the bow slightly when playing chords or Double stops as this get's that "cap'n CRUNCHY" sound out of the bowing and makes the double stops sound a bit smoother.

Or, by tilting you can soften the tone a bit, takes the "edge" off ( No pun intended ).... Most of this is based upon what I've read, heard from Bluegrass and Old Time Fiddle professors so please take my comments with a grain of salt.

At least what I've heard is when you pull down on the downbow keep it flat but on the upbow sometimes it's acceptable to tilt the bow a bit.... I think it said away from the body...

The only time I've noticed I tilt a bit is on my up bowing and I tilt it a bit away from the body. I think if your playing like a scale in a series of quarter notes in rapid succession, quickly, a little tilt might give you a nice, short kinda snappy sound with a loose wrist. Long bows bowing downwards keeping it flat, pushing up with the wrist flexed, I think a bit of a tilt makes the upbow sound gentler and more controlled...IMHO

All in all I think it depends on the sound you want. It seems to me the bow is very versatile and can be used and played in a variety of ways in order to facilitate a desired sound or affect

" I just keep telling myself...."It's all about becoming one with your bow"

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: yellowdresses
45 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming HeadCheese, lakelivr, harvestman, fiddlinmama, kit

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3755

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3554

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6440

Posts: 80303

Newest Members:

Mukundan, MyMing, dbsimon, stirlingite771, mdedmon, coreshanethi

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11694, KindaScratchy: 1651