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Bowing up and bowing down? or Change direction
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zickler88
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April 21, 2012 - 1:10 am
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Hey guys, I need helps to understand when to bowing up and bowing down.  I know, there is a symbol on music sheet that instruct us what to do.  But, I always practice new song by listening.  Besides that, I just learn how to read music sheet, so it is quite difficult.  Maybe my fellow friends in FM can share their thought and Ideas.

 

Thank youcheers

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cdennyb
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April 21, 2012 - 3:46 am
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I dont read either... well... about like a kindergarten child reads the dictionary maybe.

 

I usually change bow direction with a note change unless theres a symbol under the measure showing one continous bow direction for a series of notes.

I tend to look ahead a little to the next measures or run of notes and try to have enough bow left to play them.

Takes a little practice to get it right.

I'm sure FM would have the proper advice.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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NoirVelours
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April 21, 2012 - 12:01 pm
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I'm learning to read sheet music also. Usually they give you the first up or down bow and you change direction each notes unless there is a symbol linking the notes together, it's like an arc pink-violin-girland I might be wrong but we call it slurs? you use same bow direction for those notes.

slur: a mark used to show where a group of notes are played either under a single bow stroke

Besides that, it's your preference, I found it easier to start on an upbow on two of the songs I practice because it made the switch to the E string easier at one point.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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ftufc
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April 21, 2012 - 12:11 pm
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NV, my understanding is exactly yours; whoever wrote/re-wrote the score, actually tells you on the sheet  music how they think the piece should be bowed; so it tells you whether you start down or up bow and you change direction for each note unless (again as you said) it's slurred; so it is all laid out for you.

But I've had this discussion with my teacher multiple times; sometimes the bowing pattern that feels most comfortable to me, varies slightly from the sheet, in which case, he urges me to learn the piece correctly (lol) but says it's ultimately up to the player.

And obviously the hard and fast rules would apply more rigidly if you're playing in a group, otherwise you'd look like a black goose flying in a pattern of white geese,,, you're more likely to get shot.  But if you're playing on your own,,, not so critical I guess.  That's all I know of the subject! violin-student

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NoirVelours
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April 21, 2012 - 12:18 pm
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I agree it's all about how YOU feel comfortable playing, as long as the results are the same and it feels smooth when you play!

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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TerryT
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April 21, 2012 - 1:25 pm
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So some guy spends upto 5 years writing a music compsition and us smart arse beginners come along and change it all. Haha, aren't WE the popular people b-slap
I just find there is so much information on a piece of music, the wrong bowing us the least if my problems at the mo.violin-student
But my teacher is pretty rigid when it comes to following the music, and tbf, I'm paying her to teach me the best habits! duncecap

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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Oliver
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April 21, 2012 - 2:55 pm
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If you join a community orchestra and don't know about bow direction, you could hurt somebody.

dancing

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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ftufc
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April 21, 2012 - 3:18 pm
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ditto Terry! thumbs-up

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TerryT
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April 21, 2012 - 3:45 pm
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Oliver said

If you join a community orchestra and don't know about bow direction, you could hurt somebody.

dancing

I have often wondered and cringed about that!
When I was watching FM do a duet with his daughter, I was like " ooh! Ouch! Eek!l

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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TerryT
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April 21, 2012 - 3:58 pm
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ftufc said

ditto Terry! thumbs-up

Reminds me, I must post you a cheque Fred, lol

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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Mad_Wed
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April 21, 2012 - 5:33 pm
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I don't know much about bowing, so i hope someone will correct me if i'm wrong... Don't want to confuse anybody =)

Depends of HOW You want to play a piece and what emotions You bring into it...

But:

First note in a measure is usually more powerful than the others, so it's better to be played down bow. Or if You want to play ff You usually play it down bow. Or for example, if You want to make a crescendo, You play it upbow and then down bow will be the loud ff note....

Upbeat usually is played upbow in a lower third of the bow - to make it comfortable start down bowing from the frog for the next strong note... etc..

But if You play with sheet music - better follow the direction, that marked there =)

devil-violindazeddevil-violin It's quite a difficult question though.

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ftufc
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April 21, 2012 - 6:13 pm
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Lmao; yeah Terry, was wondering if I had to invoice you! rofl

And actually you're in a bit of a tough spot; cuz if you pay me a paltry sum, then I assume you really do want to see the outfit on,,, so it GD better be a hefty amount to keep your manhood in tact!!!roflolroflolroflolroflol

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TerryT
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April 21, 2012 - 6:27 pm
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Hah, How do you want it? Dollars? sterling, Euros, SA Rand?
Will 50 be enough?
birthday-cake

And if I remember correctly, it's not MY manhood that is in question, harhar!

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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ftufc
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lmao facepalm

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zickler88
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April 22, 2012 - 4:03 am
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Brilliant, now I have the idea. Thank you guys. I dont have a teacher, I am self thought. Price for violin teacher quite expansive.  So, there is a lot question cycling in my mind.  Basically, you guys are my teacher...  Thank you so much.

Give me your account number, I will transfer the fees to your account... doublekiss

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Fiddlerman
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April 23, 2012 - 12:21 pm
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Great answers above.

Bowing affects dynamics, expressions and phrasing.

Generally you play the downbeat, or first beat in a measure down bow. A pick-up to the first bar would be an up bow.
Down bows are used more often for accents.
Down bows are used for diminuendo's (decreasing volume)
Up bows are used for soft entrances, pickups, careful beginnings.
Up bows are used for crescendo's (increasing volume)
Slurs are used to connect notes smoothly.

The trick is to experiment and figure out what sounds the best musically. Once you have experimented enough, it will begin to make obvious sense to you.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Joe
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i was wondering if professionally written music has bow suggestions or indications for this

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Fiddlerman
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May 20, 2012 - 5:33 pm
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Yes it does Joe. Usually everything is bowed. If there is no marking over the note you just play in the opposite direction. In other words, start down and play the next note up. If there is a slur you connect the notes in one bow direction unless the slur is just a phrasing indication. Then we often have down and up bows marked in to make sure we all play using the same playing direction. Looks great from the audience perspective.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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KindaScratchy
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May 20, 2012 - 5:40 pm
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joe said
i was wondering if professionally written music has bow suggestions or indications for this

I've wondered the same thing. I was glad to read FM's response:

Fiddlerman said
Yes it does Joe. Usually everything is bowed. If there is no marking over the note you just play in the opposite direction. In other words, start down and play the next note up. If there is a slur you connect the notes in one bow direction unless the slur is just a phrasing indication. Then we often have down and up bows marked in to make sure we all play using the same playing direction. Looks great from the audience perspective.

Because that's how I've been doing it. Start on a down bow, then every note is a change in direction, except on slurs. But, its a good point that if you're going to play in an orchestra or ensemble, you'll need to be in sync with the other violinist.

Thankfully, I don't think that I'll ever have to worry about that, as I don't think I'll ever play with anyone else, period.

dunno

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

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NoirVelours
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May 20, 2012 - 7:42 pm
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I'm religiously following the indications on the music sheet lol, some piece starts with an up bow, dunno why but I trust the music composer or arranger. Thank you FM for explaining the whys of up and down bowing, I never realized it made a difference.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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