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Frustration in learning the violin?
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Vidavli
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November 22, 2015 - 7:17 pm
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Hello, I would like to share my experience in learning the violin, which is not very satisfactory to say.
First, perhaps the comfort when holding the violin with his shoulder and neck.
I used before but felt shoulder rests besides descanza unstable shoulder-in a special black sheath with lead-rubber, then a wooden model orange.
Now you can see the pictures.
The other is the exhaustion that could cause the violin, or even the lack of patience with it.
And finally the final boss, the vibrato.
It is a curious thing to contemplate violinists can vibrate naturally and I I've been on trying two years, can not do it decently.
I tried the arm, but is large and not sound as good with classical pieces.
I tried the hand, but my thumb, at least I suppose, is something wrong positioned or hell, but I can not.
Not to mention the finger vibrato.
Finally, it is the generation of clean and safe sounds.
I usually handle the bow with some firmness, but sometimes that is not very beneficial.

They want to share their good and bad experiences, surely we agree on something.

Peace!

-----

This is the model used before, as have rejected the shoulder rests ūüôĀ

 

Fom-de-arce-violín-resto-del-hombro-de-cuero-hombrera-hombrera-arco-para-4-4-violín.jpg

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Fiddlerman
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November 23, 2015 - 5:58 am
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I suppose that when you have been working at something for that long and are not satisfied at least from time to time, it's very frustrating.

Have you ever taken private lessons? It might be beneficial to have one or two refresher lessons if you can find the right person.

The other thing is something that applies to almost everything in life. Expectations. It's not a bad thing to lower your expectations and that is not the same as lowering your standards or taste.
Having expectations that are too high can really bring you down.

Set some new goals that are achievable based on what you have seen so far. Have you noticed improvement? Because if you see improvement on anything, "baby steps", then you are ultimately getting to be a better violinist.

As far as vibrato goes, it's a difficult task for almost everyone. Sometimes it's not just a matter of getting the vibrato to work but to all of a sudden feel it happening the right way. Try doing all your relax activities with a violin in your hand (no bow) and vibrate all the time. In front of the tv, while reading the paper, reading online news..... Just vibrate in different ways and find a smoothness. Even though I am fairly proficient at vibrato, it takes time for my vibrato to warm up which is an indication that we need to work those joints.

Maybe above all, try to enjoy the good and not focus on the bad.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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zickler88
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November 23, 2015 - 7:36 am
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I have pain in the shoulder in early days.  Because I held the violin wrongly.  I'm not bowing straight, my right elbow moving like a zebra.  My left thumb hurt, I not believe my neck can hold the violin.  So the pressure is on my thumb. 

Believe me i think you nearly there.  You'll get the answer.  It took me 2 years to vibrate correctly and in tunes.  And it took forever to understand the bow grip and still, I feel there is a lot of thing I need to explore.  

it's never end.

Keep it up mate! 

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Jim Dunleavy
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November 23, 2015 - 7:47 am
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Fiddlerman said
..................I am fairly proficient at vibrato.............

Reading that made me smile! http://fiddlerman.com/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-smile.gif

@Vidavli learning any instrument is a long, slow process, and the violin is harder than most - at least to get to the point where it sounds good. You're in good company here - just keep going.

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micra
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November 23, 2015 - 8:42 pm
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Frustration- well, who cannot reply to this post?

If it was easy, everybody would do it.  And it would mean nothing.  Like so many things in life.  And that is why we persevere...

Sometimes I wish I could vibrato with my right hand!  My left hand feels clumsy trying to do it!  

And shifting?  Don't EVEN get me started.   

But I just keep trying.  If the frustration level gets too high, I'm TRYING too hard.  Slow down.  

Relax, it's a journey.

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Dan-Hur
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November 23, 2015 - 9:56 pm
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@--Jim--, yeah if that's fairly proficient, I give up haha

I started learning on my own last Christmas. Since then, I've taken 2 semesters of lessons at the community college. It does help to have some one on one education. I definitely improved faster with lessons. And of course, you gotta be willing to put in the time with practice. 

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Mark
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November 23, 2015 - 10:46 pm
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Vidavli, the violin frustrating to learn to play? Shirley you jest!bunny-headbang

I have had the good fortune to play bass guitar in groups for 40 years now, to be able to walk in set up and play instantly contributing to the group, hear the cord changes adding runs to keep the rhythm fluid and leading singers and pickers into verses and choruses, sing harmony or lead. Then pick up the violin and go brain dead can't hear the cord changes get lost trying to take a break from listing to every one else forgetting where the notes and cords are when backing up others and at home when ¬†practising every thing works great. No I've never experanced frustration with the violinÔŅľ¬†lumpy-2134¬† NOT. ¬† ¬† ¬† ¬†

This instrument takes time! Zukerman made a statement it takes 2 to 4 years just to get the bow arm conditioned to play practicing 3 to 5 hours a day!  Its been said here before and its the truth we are are worst critic my bow arm is still no where it needs to be fingering hand still misses notes and lands out of tune others say it sounds really good. All is relative if you want to get better and methodically work towards that goal you'll get there keep your head up and enjoy your playing. As a side note I was having shoulder pain from an old sports injury I got a taller chin rest and went to no shoulder rest and my shoulder has quit hurting just some food for thought.     Mark         

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Fidelestre
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November 24, 2015 - 6:24 am
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@Vidavli,

You must be playing fairly well, if you are at the level of worrying about vibrato. I am having trouble just getting to the point where I can reliably hold the bow correctly and draw it across the string with the proper motions!

As long as you are having fun playing and getting better over time, it doesn't really matter how long it takes to learn. There is so much depth to the violin that even very proficient players can keep learning as they play more.

For me, having a good-fitting shoulder rest has been important. You could order a couple of cheap models to try out. If you have a good local violin shop, it could be worthwhile going there with your violin and asking for help in finding a shoulder rest that fits well. You'll pay a little more at a local shop, but they can help suggest models that fit based on your neck size and other factors.

I agree with those above who suggested lessons, if you are not already working with a teacher. In retrospect, I wish I had started lessons sooner so that I wouldn't have picked up bad habits that are now difficult to un-learn! Some people learn very well by watching online video tutorials and following the model, but I have found I also need someone to provide feedback on how I am doing. Otherwise I just practice it incorrectly without realizing I am doing something wrong!

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rockinglr33
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November 28, 2015 - 8:59 am
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Well I can certainly simpathize with getting frustrated playing violin. There have been times I became so frustrated that i set it down and walked away for a week.  There is always so many things to learn and improve on and I know being stuck on one thing for so long has to be excruciating. But have you tried videoing yourself? sometimes what is holding us up becomes vividly apparent when we see ourselves play. You can put yourself in an instructors mode. 

 

I know when I am trying to learn something new I actually concentrate way to hard and end up causing tension throughout my body, which causes me to sound horrible, and creates more tension. But if i stop when i realize i'm getting tense and then just play around for a minuet its surprises me how quickly i can pick some things up. not sure if it would work with vibrato since I have yet to come close to mastering it but its an idea. 

 

Good luck!

Lead me, Follow me, or get out of my way!

             ~General George S. Patton

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coolpinkone
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November 28, 2015 - 1:46 pm
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I have a lot of frustration and disappointment in myself with violin.  I am glad you brought this up.

I can  play some tunes..none of my true favorites.  My training is sporadic.  I spend to much time on projects and tunes and not on personal lessons, scales and bowing.  Every aspect of my playing needs sharpening up ... so I know what you are saying.

I have to get a list of exercises and  follow it (bowing and scales).

 As an adult player my biggest obstacle is my day job.  And I am on the computer 8-9 hours a day... so sometimes my arms are tired.. (same job 14 years)... Or my mind is tired....so I just play a tune or two instead of actually committing to a scale, or bowing.. THAT CAN NOT be my excuse if I am to prevail....so I am glad we are having this talk. 

I have chores and my household to run and these things are time bandits.   And sometimes fatigue sets in and I am slouched in a corner flipping through facebook on my phone.. THAT CAN NOT be my excuse if I am to prevail.

Good talk good talk.. I need a kick in the mooning-2174

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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Jim Dunleavy
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December 17, 2015 - 10:05 am
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I just came across this video on Youtube. It's 20 minutes long and is all talking to the camera, but I think it's worth watching! Although he focusses on the violin, what he says applies to any instrument (and in fact learning any skill).

Are you a dabbler, an obsessive or a hacker? Watch the video to find out!

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Schaick
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December 17, 2015 - 12:20 pm
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@Jim Dunleavy   Thanks for that video, but I don't really fit into any 3 of those perfectly!  I have been realistic, persistent, patient and focused on FUN!!  I think that is the beauty of being an adult learner.  

I will never be in a competition or a member of a professional orchestra, but I jam my heart out with people that have!!

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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Schaick
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December 17, 2015 - 12:36 pm
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coolpinkone said
I have a lot of frustration and disappointment in myself with violin.  I am glad you brought this up.

I can  play some tunes..none of my true favorites.  My training is sporadic.  I spend to much time on projects and tunes and not on personal lessons, scales and bowing.  Every aspect of my playing needs sharpening up ... so I know what you are saying.

I have to get a list of exercises and  follow it (bowing and scales).

...
Good talk good talk.. I need a kick in the mooning-2174

I don't do scales!!  I do tunes!!  By training do you mean having a teacher and lessons?  I am a bit low on funding to follow my fiddling hobby so I have been very careful how I spend money on it.  

I have had in this order -

6 Suzuki lessons that basically taught me how to hold the bow and violin correctly and then how to adjust to the aches and pains of these old bones!!

2 Bluegrass that ended up being more about confidence building.

1 Jamming lesson

The most cost effective is the group jamming lesson and it was awesome!!!  I will definitely have more of these.

NOW get rid of that - frustration and disappointment - soldier!!

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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micra
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December 18, 2015 - 1:28 am
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Jim Dunleavy said
I just came across this video on Youtube. It's 20 minutes long and is all talking to the camera, but I think it's worth watching! Although he focusses on the violin, what he says applies to any instrument (and in fact learning any skill).

Are you a dabbler, an obsessive or a hacker? Watch the video to find out!

I have on occasion been a dabbler, and an obsessive (more the later than the former, as I've gotten older), even a hacker, although certainly with the violin I'm nowhere near any kind of level where I would consider resting on my laurels and hacking it! ¬†Certainly, I understand plateaus...as currently I'm languishing on the vibrato plateau, which he mentions as an example, so I can relate. ¬†I understood pretty early on in this particular endeavor that learning to play the violin was going to be difficult (understatement), have sometimes wondered if I was too old, or just not physically suited to the task, familiar doubts.... ¬† but ultimately I get that this is a journey, so I guess I have to say that watching this video was somewhat heartening, because at least I can say I don't think I'm in any danger of falling too deep into any of those three big pits as I continue to make my way... ūüôā

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bluesviolin
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December 20, 2015 - 6:37 am
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I've been playing for 40 years this year, and I've had more frustration with finding an instrument that I really liked more than the actual playing. Earlier on I had 2 or 3 very good violins (not necessarily expensive ones as I've played plenty of 5, 6, 7k violins that I simply would not own) but at the time, I didn't have enough experience to know what I had, an ended up trading them off.

I'm quite picky about certain criteria that needs to be meet in a fiddle, and often I would get side-tracked about something I didn't like.

Fortunately, I now have two fiddles that I'm very happy with, can't seem to find anything I don't like about them, and I don't need to be bothered by the instrument itself, and can focus 100% on practicing and playing.

I would still practice & play and perform thru the years, but when something was bothering me about the 'current' fiddle I had, it would hinder my progress.

I'm now climbing, for me, to what is another level. It's fairly hard work.... actually hafta concentrate and knuckle down etc. but it's also very rewarding when things come together, as I'm sure y'all know.

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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coolpinkone
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December 26, 2015 - 2:51 pm
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I think this is a great topic.  New year.. new goals.. New violins... same violins.

There can and will be frustration.  There is usually a reason. Whatever the reason may be, it is good to talk it out, play it out. 

My tips for getting out of frustration and disappointment.

1. come here and chat and get inspired.

2. Learn a new song.

3. Actually get to the root of some of the problems, SERIOUS technique practice to show myself that I can do it, and sometimes it takes work and discipline.  (it always takes work and discipline to get to a new level.)

4. Play older songs.. first learned and hear the difference.

5. Play old videos.. (sometimes they are so bad I delete them..LOL)  My first ever C major scale... it had six notes!! LOLOLOL

Good luck and keep playing.

Cheers,

Toni

Vibrato Desperato.... Desperately seeking vibrato

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mickmeloche
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January 9, 2016 - 10:28 pm
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I am so lucky! I am so frustrated with this violin.  I practice several hrs. a day and have reached a plateau.  I didn't understand what was happening.  I know I have an obsessive personality when it comes to music and art, but this plateau really kicked my butt.  The arthritis in my fingers is killing me and I can't fix it, and then I got to thinking, I'm just too old to be doing this.  Last week it was so much fun, what happened? I am hitting bad notes and I hate the sound of the songs I thought I played well.  I can't give it up.  Thanks to this info, I will soldier on.  Anyway I have a cat that loves my violin music.  Can't deny Percy, his morning violin.  Thanks, to all of you. Mickey

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
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January 10, 2016 - 12:37 am
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@Michmeloche: Look for my reply to your PM in your inbox.

 

Ken.

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Fiddlerman
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January 10, 2016 - 10:51 am
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Mickey,

You may not believe me now, but this is what is called normal. ūüôā
You will have ups and downs and you will think you are not improving but improvement comes in spurts and baby steps. As a test, record yourself now. Write down in your calendar to record yourself playing the same thing in 6 months or even a year, and let me know the results. I can guarantee improvement as long as you keep playing and practicing.
However, attitude is super important when playing. Don't have an angry practice session. Find whatever fun you can out of the session and relax those painful hands as much as possible while doing it. Make a conscious effort to do so.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Schaick
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January 11, 2016 - 9:12 am
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coolpinkone  YES!!  "come here and chat and get inspired."

This forum is wonderful!  Thank you Fiddlerman!

Violinist start date -  May 2013  

Fiddler start date - May 2014

FIDDLE- Gift from a dear friend. A 1930-40 german copy, of a french copy of a Stradivarius.  BOW - $50 carbon fiber. Strings - Dominants with E Pirastro Gold string.

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