FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
HELP tape or no tape
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
eoj02
mooresvill, in
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 4:26 pm
Member Since: February 26, 2012
Forum Posts: 167
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm about 3 weeks into learning the violin.  I'm switching back and forth between fiddle stuff and violin stuff.  I have not been using tape on the neck, but I am thinking of doing so.  I'm a little torn though. 

At first, I didn't use tape thinking that would make me a wuss.  But as I go along, I find that i'm taking more time adjusting for a missed note than learning a song.

If I just go passed the missed note, I have a tendency to repeat that error.  Does anyone have any suggestions on weather to tape or not to tape?  If so, what positions do I tape.  I was thinking of taping at 1.5 steps, 5 steps and 12 steps.

Avatar
Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 4:46 pm
Member Since: October 7, 2011
Forum Posts: 2849
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I never used tapes or any other marks, so i don't know what positions You could tape... But i You decide to put something on the fingerboard, then put this one:

http://fiddlershop.com/Accesso.....s-Applique

- no head ache about positions - all marked =)

Avatar
Fiddle4Fun
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 4:55 pm
Member Since: January 28, 2012
Forum Posts: 228
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Oh, no. 

 

You asked The Question.

 

laugh

 

Some people swear by them and others swear when they see them.  I think their usefulness depends on one's learning style.  I have a decal on my fingerboard and find it helps me since, when I err, I can see where my finger is too high or too low.  It also really helps me visualize the notes in terms of half and whole steps.

 

The biggest downside is that I don't think in terms of "A, B, etc." but rather "A0, A2, etc." so it makes reading sheet music a bit tougher.

 

I haven't found that it ruins my ear training.  I can still hear a bad note and, when I do, I immediately check to see how far out of position my hand has slid.  I think it has actually helped because I can be more consistent so I can learn a correct sound faster. 

 

This all may be unique to me, though.

 

You don't really have anything to lose by trying tapes.  If you don't like them or they don't help then you can just pull them off.

Avatar
eoj02
mooresvill, in
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 5:01 pm
Member Since: February 26, 2012
Forum Posts: 167
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hmm, i might just try them.  I wasn't sure if learning without them would be more benificial for finding that correct position.  But, being a guitar player, having that line of reference might be helpful.  I will be building a fiddle, i might just inlay a few things in the fingerboard.

Thanks for the input. 

Avatar
myguitarnow
Laguna Beach
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 5:44 pm
Member Since: June 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1094
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I haven't used tape either but I'm a guitar player too so maybe it would be helpful for you to try one of those appliques that Mad Wed suggested on FMs shop. They have all the frets like a guitar has.

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 6:16 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

eojo2 - I think everyone just starting to play comes to grips with this issue.  I've been playing now for just 10 wks; the first 2 wks I swore I'd not use a crutch, but then, because I wasn't honing in on the notes as accurately/quickly as I had hoped, I thought my problem must be not having any idea where the correct position was, so then I tried an applique with various notes/finger positions for 3 wks, then took it off.  I discovered, for me, that just because the applique identifies correct finger placement, it's not accurate because each individual's fingers are different (different sizes/shapes/etc.), so I still had to hone into the correct note using my ear. 

Of course the difference with frets on a guitar and a fretless string instrument is, the fret provides a fixed point on the fingerboard, whether your finger is 1 mm or 8 mm behind the fret.  On the violin, just rocking your finger back a mm changes the pitch.

And it's not like you have 20"s of territory to learn, it's a pretty small fingerboard.  When I took the applique off, for me anyway, I had to rely on my ear, and I think I developed that skill much faster than I might have had I continued to use the applique.

But like Fiddle4Fun said, you have absolutely nothing to loose in trying them; I just think it's very personal, what does and doesn't work.

Just another perspective for what it's worth.  Good luck, this is such an incredible instrument!

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
March 18, 2012 - 10:03 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717

It's good to use your ears as much as possible but if you can use it as a guide for a while and not become dependent on it then I can't see why not.
I never used them myself.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
screeeech
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 10:14 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2011
Forum Posts: 196
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I too struggled with this and my thoughts are that the tape is to tell you where to put your fingers so that you can find the hand position that is correct for you.

There is no "Correct" hand position or anchor point that works for everyone. 

The idea of the tape is to get your fingers in the right place so you can find the  comfortable hand position for you.

Its the place you put your hand so your finger tips fall in the correct place comfortably.

Use the hand position from the first notes video and use the muscles in you forearm not your hand.

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
March 18, 2012 - 11:23 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I started out with an applique and after awhile I took it off. Now that I am trying to learn different positions I ordered another. I don't look at the tape when playing and have learned to know when a note doesn't sound right but I find it a good help for me to look and see where my hand is when my intonation is off then I can correct my hand and start again until it becomes memorized.  I don't think of it as a crutch at all. I think of it as a learning aid.  People learn in different ways and what is right for some may not be right for you.  It seems that you already can tell if a note is off and if you need to go higher or lower and I think this is what the tapes help with so if you want the tapes to help you know what you already know than don't put them on and keep practicing. I hope I make sense to you since sometimes I confuse myself.

Avatar
NoirVelours
Quebec
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 10:58 am
Member Since: March 28, 2012
Forum Posts: 822
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'm doing this the hard way, no tapes nothing and it's hard! I am ajusting my fingers all the time but then I'm still in my first week so I bet this will be normal for months to come anyway. I'm trying to make my finger memorize how it feels to be in this or that note position. I'm sure it's slowing me down but then I'm trying to keep my eyes on my music sheet instead of the fingerboard! Every time I practice though I am tempted to put some tapes there!

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 11:09 am
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
Avatar
Dee Major
Regular advisor
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 11:49 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 158
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I am using Kevin's finger guide (his link above), taped to the bottom of the neck with painter's tape, and it is very helpful. I try not to look at my fingers when playing, but if a note sounds off, I can check to see how far off my finger placement is.  coffee

Avatar
KindaScratchy
Massachusetts
April 3, 2012 - 12:46 pm
Member Since: March 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 1651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'm also a guitar player and have been playing the violin for about a month and a half. I didn't want to use tape or an applique at first but finally caved because I just wasn't getting the notes right. I have both an applique and tape on my violin now, but I find the tape most useful. The applique is the kind with embossed "frets," which I can't feel due to my guitar callouses, and if I look at them it just messes me up. The frets were helpful, though, in placing the tape. I have tape at the 1 and 3 positions to give me a frame of reference for both ends of most violin-friendly keys. I figure that I'll continue to use the tape until I establish enough "muscle memory" to get the fingerings right without help.

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

Avatar
NoirVelours
Quebec
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 1:34 pm
Member Since: March 28, 2012
Forum Posts: 822
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'm very stubborn and still resist. But on a good note I just finished a 30 min practice that went so well! It encourage me to keep playing without tapes.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

Avatar
cdennyb
King for a Day, Peasant for many
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 1:37 pm
Member Since: February 13, 2012
Forum Posts: 1774
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I've made Kevin's paper pdf  but after I got it, I modified it to show the letter of the note, helps me make the connection between the sheet music which I mark up and the actual final position of the note. I can learn the piece quicker but after that I have it memorized and can play without the paper.

 

I'd give it a try, nothing to loose.cheers

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 2:16 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1698
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

After 3 months of practice without, I'm thinking of trying it.
Here's why, at first I only used G and D major scales and everything was fine(ish). Now I'm trying to play in F major, C major and Bflat major, all my finger positions seem to get jumbled up, so if only for Natural notes (I can judge sharps and flats from there) I'm thinking of using any help to memorise.violin-studentfacepalm

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 5:27 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Don't think of using tapes or apliques as a crutch.  People learn in different ways.  Some can see a video of something and fully comprehend it while others can read it and fully comprehend.  Others comprehend better when being lectured to. If the common goal is to learn to play violin than use what works best for you not what works best for others.

Avatar
cdennyb
King for a Day, Peasant for many
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 5:56 pm
Member Since: February 13, 2012
Forum Posts: 1774
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'd like to see a virtuoso in a big time orchastra, dressed in a Tux, looking all cool, stand up, ready to play a solo in front of a thousand people, with a violin that has a paper applique taped on it....

 

roflolroflolrofloldancingthumbs-upthumbs-up

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 6:10 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

hopefully they've learned to play by then

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
April 3, 2012 - 6:21 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1698
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

cdennyb said

I'd like to see a virtuoso in a big time orchastra, dressed in a Tux, looking all cool, stand up, ready to play a solo in front of a thousand people, with a violin that has a paper applique taped on it...

roflolroflolrofloldancingthumbs-upthumbs-up

Hahaha, wouldn't that be the funniest!
Thanks for putting that image in my head CdB! roflol

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online:
38 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today HeadCheese
Upcoming Mad_Wed, Prudence, ButteryStuffs, kit, makinnoise

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3767

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3562

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6446

Posts: 80403

Newest Members:

EKBanjo, charlieD, Folky fiddler, Morgenes42, stringo, sexymom04

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11717, KindaScratchy: 1651