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min7b5 (Locrian) arpeggios over any church mode
how to use Locrian arps over any church mode, demo'd by David Wallimann
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bluesviolin
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May 25, 2016 - 1:27 am
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I'm going to make another post in a few minutes to explain this, OK?

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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bluesviolin
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May 25, 2016 - 2:00 am
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I hope some of you will take a little time and listen to this teaching video. Although it's demo'd on guitar, the same thing can be done on violin. I've been using these min7b5 (Locrian) arpeggios for quite a few years, over / mixed in with any church mode.

I love how they sound, and how they 'open up' the modes, and lend a slightly 'outside' feel. and the feel they lend is different for every mode.

Let me know what you think.... 

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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Uzi
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@bluesviolin, good stuff. Well done video too. 

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. ~Herm Albright

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AnnyJ
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Thanks for the post.  I've never really heard anything about modes embarassed, so this is very interesting, although I can't quite seem to wrap my head around it and how it works, I'll have to investigate further. 

It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself. Johann S.Bach

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bluesviolin
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May 29, 2016 - 12:31 am
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annyj Thanks for the interest....modes changed my 'musical life'. if you know your major scales, you can play in all the modes. Here is an example of possibly my favorite mode, Lydian:  it has so much positive energy and beauty. Lydian can almost move me to tears, it is sooo beautiful. I love to listen and play in this mode.

This guitar player is playing in E Lydian, which means every note he hits is contained in the B Major scale. not the greatest key for violin, better violin keys would be F Lydian (C maj scale) or C Lydian (G maj scale). Once it 'clicks in' I can't think of anything easier. Just a matter of putting the emphasis in different places of the modal major scale.

If one is serious about playing the modes, it is almost essential to get backing tracks. You can buy these on line and they don't cost that much. The backing tracks have chord progressions that go with the modes. This allows you to hear the mode within the major scale. I wrote a haiku about Lydian:

I have found you now

hiding there in the raised fourth

Come Lydian; dance 

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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BillyG
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May 29, 2016 - 12:15 pm
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Yup, different modes, often overlooked.   ( and often misunderstood - as you rightly say - once you have a major scale nailed you are effectively "there" - just a different starting point ) ---

Modes -

I              - Ionian

Dont        - Dorian

Play         - Phrygian

Loud        - Lydian

Music       - Mixolodian

Any         - Aeolian

Longer     - Locrian

And, sticking to the notes of the C major scale - here's the dirrerent modes

Ionian       CDEFGABC

Dorian       DEFGABCD

Phrygian    EFGABCDE

Lydian       FGABCDEF

Mixolydian GABCDEFG

Aeolian      ABCDEFGA

Locrian      BCDEFGAB

LOL - hope that helps....

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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bluesviolin
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May 29, 2016 - 11:02 pm
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...or I - Don't - Particularly - Like - Modes ... but I can't remember the words for the A & L

maybe stating the obvious, but I think a stumbling block for people trying to get there head around them, is that they think they can only play from C to C or D to D etc.

Christian Howe says you should practice ANY scale from the lowest note on the G string to the pinky note on the E string, regardless of what key the scale is in.

so whatever mode yer in, and whatever key, you can play that modal major scale over all 4 strings. Other wise it would be pretty limited....maybe stating the obvious.

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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BillyG
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May 30, 2016 - 12:22 am
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bluesviolin said
...or I - Don't - Particularly - Like - Modes ... but I can't remember the words for the A & L  ......

A Lot, maybe - that rings a bell somewhere in my memory....

......Christian Howe says you should practice ANY scale from the lowest note on the G string to the pinky note on the E string, regardless of what key the scale is in.

Oh for sure - couldn't agree more !  Yup - my example above was really just indicating that IF you know the C major scale you actually already know D dorian, E phyrigian, and so on.   And of course, A aeolian is no more or less than what we also recognize as the A natural minor scale.

I like these sort of topics!   Thanks for the original post thumbs-up

I seriously recommend not copying my mistakes.  

Please make your own, different mistakes, and help us all learn :-)

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bluesviolin
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May 30, 2016 - 6:00 am
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that's it.... A Lot !

re: aeolean being the natural minor.... little anecdote....when I first started playing and learning where the notes were and major and minor. I realized that dorian (at that time I had no clue what dorian was) also sounded like a minor, and this had me a bit confused. this would be about 40 years ago, but I still remember practicing an an E aeolian scale and going back and forth between the C note and the C#, which is of course, the difference between E aeolian and E dorian. 

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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AnnyJ
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I think I finally got a glimmer (right word?) of how this works. Not sure if my thinking is correct though: Whatever sharps/flats (or lack thereof) you have in the base scale that being the Ionian stay the same as you move through the modes for that key, even though the name for the scale changes to whatever the starting note is. So, if you have the D major scale with F# and C# those two sharps still apply all the way up, even when it says "E dorian" you still have the 2 sharps. So the name of the scale changes to whatever the starting note is...

(now that I wrote it out is sounds kind of convoluted, lol)dazed

I noticed most of the pages that come up when I want to find out about modes end up to be guitar/bass pages. So I'm assuming that's who uses the modes most. Guitar background would probably help.

It's going to be eons before I can even think about improvising with modes. Sheet music has been my comfort zone, I hardly ever move away from it.

 

Either way this has given me a whole new purpose for practicing the dreaded scales.

 

That's a lovely haiku, Bluesviolin. I like the acrostic one two, it really help to remember the order.

 

And then there is a whole can of more questions... lol:

how, when and where are modes used? can there ever be more than one mode in one song?

It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself. Johann S.Bach

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bluesviolin
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June 5, 2016 - 12:39 am
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@AnnyJ: you are entering dangerous territory when asking serious questions about the modes of the major scale. I luv the unique sound of each of them and could talk about them all day. I'll try and keep this short.

When you refer to keys as 3 sharps or 5 flats, you've lost me. I never larned them that way. I just think of the major scale that applies to any given mode in any given key. some examples:

 E aeolian (natural minor) = Gmaj scale. C note makes it aeolian

E dorian (minor) = Dmaj scale. Db note makes it Dorian  

A mixolydian = D maj scale. G note makes it mixolydian

I use modes when jamming all the time, mostly these three with the people I jam with. E aeolian would go over an Emin chord. E dorian over an Emin7 chord. A mixolydian over an A7 chord. But the same mode can be played over a chord progression involving several chords, and Yes, there can be more than one mode in one song, depending on the chord changes of the song.

when doing a blues in E, normally you would use E dorian (Dmaj sc) @fiddlerguy demos this (I think) in one of his blues vids, although he does not demo the E blues scale which goes along with E dorian.

I've learned other tricks with the modes as per the OP ie: Locrian and Maj7 arpeggios that can be played over any mode. They sound COOL!

Perhaps my favorite modes are Lydian and Phrygian, but they require ...ummm...different chord progressions.

are you maxed out on modes yet? Anyways, I think it's a very easy way to improvise with all sorts of genres... blues, folk, country, Pop, Rock

...Thanks for listening 

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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bluesviolin
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June 5, 2016 - 12:43 am
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@Fiddlerman on the above thread, I have no Idea why it came up 'Fiddlerguy' I typed in Fiddlerman ?

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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bluesviolin
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....or, here's another method to play any mode in any key.

Ionian 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > octave

Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7

Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Lydian 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7

Mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

Aeolian 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Locrian 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 

I don't think them out like this... I more or less hear the mode and find the applicable major scale within a few notes.

...anything you can do with a major scale ie: ascending/descending patterns in 3rds, triads, 4ths, interval patterns etc. etc. you can play any major scale pattern to the applicable mode.   

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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Fiddlerman
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June 10, 2016 - 1:37 pm
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Thanks Bluesviolin 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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AnnyJ
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Thank you @bluesviolin that's a lot of helpful information! 🙂 It's still a bit of a challenge wrapping my head around this.

No, I'm not maxed out yet, not as far as wanting it anyway, just lacking time right now to study much on it. I hope I'll have more time in the next few weeks (summer).

It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself. Johann S.Bach

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bluesviolin
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AnnyJ said

I noticed most of the pages that come up when I want to find out about modes end up to be guitar/bass pages. So I'm assuming that's who uses the modes most. Guitar background would probably help.

@AnnyJ Ok, please get back to me later on and let me know if you are still pursuing this. Yes, Guitar players are hip to this. I've been trying to promote this to violinists for years, with little success. It seems as tho there are only fiddlers and Classical players. Are there no fusion Violinists! or for that matter...Rock, blues, folk, country, Pop. Modes make it sooo easy to improvise to all most anything...except harmonic type jazz, classical & fiddle tunes. But the modes won't make much sense to you without modal backgrounds to play to. but you could find these easy enough on line.

There are also 7 modes to the Harmonic minor scale, but they are a bit 'out there'  

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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