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...playing over Dmin7B5 > G7#9 > C min
these are some Jamie Aerbersold patterns for a minor II - V7 - I progression
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bluesviolin
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November 10, 2016 - 6:03 am
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typo in the thread title...should be Dmin7b5, not Dmin7B5.

I apologize for the poor intonation... best I can do right now, but hopefully you'll get the general idea.

I may post it again sometime when I can bring the intonation in better.

the scales used are as follows:

Dmin7b5 = half diminished = D Locrian  - D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, (D)

G7#9 = diminished/whole tone (altered scale) G, Ab, Bb, B, C#, Eb, F, (G)

C minor....

I particularly like the G7#9. Jamie says this about it: "The diminished/whole tone scale produces much tension and beauty, and is a sound most jazz players eventually lean towards". I definitely agree with him :o)

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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Uzi
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November 10, 2016 - 5:00 pm
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Nailed it.  Excellent. 

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. ~Herm Albright

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Fiddlerman
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November 11, 2016 - 9:29 pm
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Great job Blues,

Keep up the great work. Looks like you are having a lot of fun too. 🙂

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Demoiselle
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November 12, 2016 - 4:17 pm
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bluesviolin said
G7#9
................................
  

Sounds very nice, like it very much!

I tried to look it up in Aebersold's "NOMENCLATURA" in volume 110, but it's not there. So you're probably using one of his very special edition where he's teaching these things.

The symbol "#" has never been part of writing down chords. To me G79 would be the chord G, B, D, F, A (F = seventh, A = ninth) but this here seems to be a completely different story. So what is the "#" changing then?

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bluesviolin
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November 12, 2016 - 11:01 pm
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the '#' is a sharp 9. the notes of the chord are G, B, F, Bb.  #=sharp, b=flat

The scale notes are: G, Ab, Bb, B, C#, Eb, F, (G). This chord/scale has both a major 3rd and a minor 3rd. The major 3rd being the B, and the minor 3rd being Bb. a sharp 9 is the same as a minor 3rd, but the #9 is almost always played on the treble part of the chord, but not when playing the scale. In the patterns I played, the B & Bb are sometimes played together, sometimes mixed up.

This chord was quite often used by Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn, and sounds great for 'hard' blues/rock.

I got this from Aerbersold Volume 3 the II - V7 - I progression. in that book Aerbersold writes it out as G7+9. but I don't like to type it that way as it could be confused with an 'add 9' chord, which is different. there could be G9, or Gadd9...2 different chords. If I'm not mistaken G9 has a dominant7, Gadd9 does not. add 9 chords are very pretty imo.

I'm glad you liked it....speaking more for the progression than my playing. It's a rather melancholy, but beautiful progression.

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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Demoiselle
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November 13, 2016 - 5:07 am
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Ah, now I got it! There are two fractions in the jazz world of harmony, the #-fraction and the +-fraction. But # and + means exactly the same. I did understand that before but forgot it. Now I'll write it on my translation paper work where I translate to several ways of notations. There are at least 3 ways to write chords, but actually there are more. Whenever I try to make music with someone, I take my paper work and ask, "Which chord language are you using?" After all I want him/her to understand the chord symbols I will write down later...

Personally I would write G79+ in this case. But if I count in reverses of that scale, it matches some more chords. On trumpet I always preferred it for Eb7, beginning with the third G indeed. But this scale also matches Abm, F°7, B76 and maybe even some more.... But my old habit is to use it for Eb7, be it with 9 or without. Usually I do not write down the 9, I will play it anyway on trumpet, violin or whatever. The pianist will add it to Eb7 anyway as he likes to. But if it's a 9+ I will probably write it down to prevent him from grabbing the usual ninth. Like I would never write down the fifth, but if it's 5+, he really must know.

I started in the New Orleans Jazz community when I was a teenager and the band that fostered me were a bunch of school teachers. They basically taught me the way how I still write down chords. But as traditional jazz is not so scale based like bebop, I'm often struggling with Aebersolds NOMENCLATURA. He seems to start his thinking with the scale, whereas I start with a chord and go on thinking about melodic phrases (like scales) which match that chord. Frankly, I always find more possible notes which can be played to a chord and I told this Jamey years ago in his forum: "I'm missing one little note in your scale, which I would really hate to give up." To me it's a matter of musical freedom.

I use Aebersold a lot, but don't analyse the chords very often--I improvise by ear. Only if I struggle with a certain passage I will take his notes to my spinet and analyze that chord. Then it's probably a gap in my hearing which likely comes from my New Orleansy past where some chords aren't common.

Right now I use Aebersold's Latin jazz stuff to boost the speed of my violin improvisation. Practicing to a metronome's tic-tic-tic.... would make me sleepy, nothing can push me over my tempo limits like hot Latin rhythms do. Coffee or pills couldn't do that.

___________

P.S.: There's on exception in 1920s jazz: Bix Beiderbecke! He really played wholetone scales like that which he had learned from Claude de Bussy's music.

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bluesviolin
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November 13, 2016 - 9:21 pm
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Demoiselle: ok, have mercy! you know much more than me about theory :o)

I also really like Latin...if the chord changes are not too complicated. I just find the mode(s) that a piece is in and fake it from there.

I'm going to keep an eye out for more of your video's.

"Striving to attain Mediocrity"

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Demoiselle
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November 14, 2016 - 4:49 pm
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bluesviolin said
Demoiselle: ok, have mercy! you know much more than me about theory :o)

I also really like Latin...if the chord changes are not too complicated. I just find the mode(s) that a piece is in and fake it from there.

I'm going to keep an eye out for more of your video's.  

My hearing has limits too. It's just a few tunes in the Aebersold repertoire, especially "Lush Life". That one is extremely complicated and the complication is extraordinarily long. Maybe someday I will work on that, but temporarily I have given up on Lush Life. Years ago I finally managed Body & Soul: getting to the bridge in there, you have the feeling it's changing to a completely different tune in a completely different key! LOL But I can handle that now at least.

My videos are a different universe 300 years ago. It's not a better universe than the jazz universe, I just moved over there and many people find it crazy. After my first concert (in about 3 weeks) I will probably post some Latin stuff. I recently learned, it's time to brutally force speed now. Gaining speed means gaining more freedom to express myself. After managing triplets and sixteenths, I can play eights in a relaxed fashion and be more creative. That's why I use Latin jazz, but haven't posted any of it yet.

Don't make yourself small! What you played on YouTube sounds very good!! I don't say that to flatter you--I really liked it. 😉

Okay, I studied chords thoroughly to understand and use them completely. It's fascinating to me anyway. But you can make beautiful music without knowing all the chords they have in the Realbook or in Aebersold editions.

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