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Learning a new song
How I first start to learn a new song, what steps I take and whatnot.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
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CircleTilde
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October 27, 2012 - 1:50 am
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Hey folks, just thought I'd share this.  I'm still learning how to do things, and thought that I'd share my learning experience on video.  Maybe it might help somebody, hopefully it doesn't confuse them.  Even more, I hope I'm not completely wrong in what I "think" that I'm saying! LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....oA98UwzR0I

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cdennyb
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October 27, 2012 - 5:23 am
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Chris... Great video for the record stuff.

Those tapes are really wide, see if you can get some 1/8" wide or less pinstripping tape and use your tuner and swap those wide ones for the skinny ones, it'll help a bunch.

I used glass cleaner on a paper towel to take off the glue residuel I had. Try to keep it off the wood and use it just on the fingerboard and neck... make sure the glass cleaner doesn't have any alcohol in it though.

 

good job... 1-2 bars a day, in a week you have a whole line down pat... and in a month the whole tune goes in the ol memory bank.thumbs-up

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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CircleTilde
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October 27, 2012 - 9:37 am
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Cdennyb,

You are most correct. My instructor wasn't happy with the width of the tape, but she said that it was all that the auto parts store had in stock. Should I get some thinner stuff in the future, I will probably take heed of your advice regarding placement. Unless I forget, LOL!

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Picklefish
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October 27, 2012 - 9:33 pm
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I use art crepe tape, available in the art supply section of Office Depot, repositionable, comes in black. perfect for this.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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cdennyb
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October 27, 2012 - 10:32 pm
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Find a body & paint shop in your neck of the woods and ask the painter guy there if he has a roll that's almopst all gone of "thinline stripping tape" in the 1/16" width variety or 5/32". Chances are good they will and just give it to you.

 

It's really thin and strong and sticks well. Constant playing will tend to slide the other types of tape because their adhesive is softer. The strings are also abrasive as well and will abraid the tape surface... the "Thinline" stuff is pretty tought due to the application they use it in... thinners, paints, etc.

cheers

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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myguitarnow
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October 27, 2012 - 11:01 pm
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> ? Um, I just suggest practice before um teaching. And um, I suggest don't put any tape on um your fiddle. My um 2 cents.

 

I'm just um suggesting.

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CircleTilde
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October 28, 2012 - 1:01 am
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Picklefish and Cdennyb, thank you for suggestions, I will look into both of them when the time comes.

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CircleTilde
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October 28, 2012 - 1:21 am
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Not sure if I'm being made fun of here, but I'd just like to point something out, for the record, of course.

 

First, when I decided to record the video the other night, it was completely off the cuff.  I had no idea what I was going to say, and certainly didn't plan on it being an entertaining piece. Most of the time, I don't plan out what I'm going to say, I just have an idea of what I'm going to do, and then with whatever pops into my head I spew it out.  My "teaching lesson" wasn't really that at all.  I don't claim to be a teacher, as I'm not very good, nor would I probably ever be a teacher for music.  I don't think that I have the patience.  But I thought that perhaps it might help me to catch some things that I'm doing wrong, as well as possibly steer somebody else to the right direction if they were lost in what they were doing.  Not everybody has the privilege of having an instructor.

 

Secondly, I apologize if the vocal sounds of "umm" or "uhh" annoy anybody.  In fact it seemed to annoy somebody enough to blatantly point it out to me.  It's not something that I realize is happening while I record, so allow me to apologize.  In fact, for this recording, I did you a favor and even went back and counted each time that I uttered those sounds.  I counted 64 in total.  I may have missed one or two, though.  So I suppose that 64 apologies are in order.

 

And third, I like constructive criticism, because it allows me to get the viewpoints of other people, to see what maybe I'm missing.  In hopes that I can get better.  What I don't really need is somebody making fun of me.  That's a bit inappropriate.  Especially in a forum that a lot of great people that I respect and admire attend to.  Perhaps this very response might be inappropriate as well, but I thought it to be necessary, just in case.  If I've misunderstood any intentions, then I apologize for some of the sarcastic remarks.  But I won't apologize for how I feel about online bullying.

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Picklefish
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October 28, 2012 - 5:12 am
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I dont umm get it, but uhh I think that......lol, couldnt resist. I personally think that talent, ability and teaching dont have to go together! the old addage, those that can do, those that cant teach comes to mind. I liked your vid and if I didnt I umm have the uhh right to umm turn it uhh off umm. Keep it up dude, youre doing fine.

thumbs-up

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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DanielB
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October 28, 2012 - 7:22 am
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I'll refrain from a long-winded statement of opinion on the current sad state of education and how that particular old addage might be partially to blame. 

I will say that I wouldn't be likely to take lessons from anyone claiming to be a teacher unless they played pretty darn good and in styles I wanted to learn.  Ideally, I'd also want someone who was playing (or had played) the sort of gigs or work I wanted to do eventually.  Anything less than that, I feel I'd be as well off teaching myself from books or the internet.  I've taught myself at least the basics of several instruments over the past few decades.  

But if someone has never been to where I want to be someday, then they don't know the way.  That is just common sense to me.

 

@O~:  Don't let them get to you, man.  I think I understand what you are doing, showing how you have started and then it may be a great encouragement to others who are thinking about trying to learn violin when they compare it with how much better you play even a few months from now.  Maybe explain some of the things you learn along the way as you are learning them, and it might save someone else some frustration.

I wouldn't class that as "teaching" as much as sharing your own ongoing learning experience, without presenting yourself as any sort of authority on the matter.  Some people do that, and it does actually help some folks.  

When I had just ordered my first violin, I was having some second thoughts and thinking about cancelling the order.  It is said to be (with some justification) one of the most challenging instruments to learn, and I had some doubts about starting at 51 yrs old.  But I did find video, audio and blogs by people who were adults and self teaching, and seeing how much they improved over a few months was reassuring.  It helped me get my "I can do this" attitude rolling.  

Even if I have misunderstood what you are trying to do, I'll still say that videos, audio, and even blogs that are by beginners can definitely help some people.  So I feel what you've done so far is definitely worthwhile. 

So far as how may times you say "umm" or "uhh" or whatever it was, that's not important.  64 times you counted?  Do another 64 in the next video or shoot for 128, if you like.  It isn't important.  The content of what you are saying and the playing are what are important.  This is Fiddlerman.com, not Publicspeaking.com or VideoEngineeringandPresentation.com and I would like to think that everyone here would understand that.  Most do, and a lot of the regulars here are wonderful people.

What gets passed off as a sense of humor by some here.. Well, I'd have to agree with you in not seeing it as such.  That's why to date I have posted a total of only one video, and almost took that one down.  I am not currently much inclined to consider posting other videos here in the future, either.  So far you've put up a few.  More than I did.  You're braver than me, O~. 

Bravo.

Just keep at it and take it in little bites at first.  One bit or bar you get down is worth a bunch you can sort of muddle through, when you're starting out.  Just go at it like you'd have to go at eating an elephant.  One bite at a time.

I have heard people starting out worse who sounded surprisingly much better after a few months or even weeks.   

With the tape, don't worry about it, just use it if it helps for now.  I doubt you'll need it for long, you just don't want it to turn into too much of a security blanket.  If you had a teacher, they might insist on the tapes, regardless of the prevalent opinions regarding tapes on this forum.  I still have part of one tape on my electric.  I leave it on just for my own amusement.  The last bit of it will wear off someday.  But using them at first, I didn't die of tape poisoning or anything, so don't worry.  LOL 

 

PS.. Y'know.. considering that with the two people that gave you a hard time about "umm", one of them is a gigging musician who definitely has experience under his belt and the other has violin students, that they could have given some more useful musical advice to a beginner than their thoughts on "umm".  I guess that would be in a more perfect world though, huh?

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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Picklefish
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October 28, 2012 - 10:52 am
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PS.. Y'know.. considering that with the two people that gave you a hard time about "umm", one of them is a gigging musician who definitely has experience under his belt and the other has violin students, that they could have given some more useful musical advice to a beginner than their thoughts on "umm".  I guess that would be in a more perfect world though, huh?

 

I wasnt giving anyone a hard time, I was poking fun about the fact that he was given a hard time about it. Hence the disclaimer at the bottom of my posts. Second, I didnt think any advice was necessary since the OP wasnt looking for any in his post, sort of a self documentary I thought. Third, This is exactly why you have to have a thick skin to post anything personal on any site. I hope Circletide doesnt think I was picking on him, I was not.

My offer to help still stands, anytime Im on here. As far as gigs go, its not a paying gig but this wed I am playing in a bluegrass band with friends of mine at our churches fall festival. I go to a bluegrass jam every saturday and am learning and improving all the time. Any time I can pass on what I learn and believe I am happy to do it. Four beginner students, 1 one year student and growing. My 1 year student who is in the 9th grade sits bored in his strings class because he learned more with 8 months and me than in two years of public school strings program.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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RosinedUp
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October 28, 2012 - 1:45 pm
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To write your apology 64 times is not so bad.  Luckily 64 is a power of 2.  Here is an easy way you can write your apologies:

1) Type one copy of your apology.

2) Use the mouse to select, copy, and paste the copies that you have so far.

3) If you have less than 64 copies of your apology then go to step (2).

Go then and sin no more.

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Barry
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October 28, 2012 - 4:18 pm
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DanielB said
I'll refrain from a long-winded statement of opinion on the current sad state of education and how that particular old addage might be partially to blame. 

I will say that I wouldn't be likely to take lessons from anyone claiming to be a teacher unless they played pretty darn good and in styles I wanted to learn.  Ideally, I'd also want someone who was playing (or had played) the sort of gigs or work I wanted to do eventually.  Anything less than that, I feel I'd be as well off teaching myself from books or the internet.  I've taught myself at least the basics of several instruments over the past few decades.  

But if someone has never been to where I want to be someday, then they don't know the way.  That is just common sense to me.

 

@O~:  Don't let them get to you, man.  I think I understand what you are doing, showing how you have started and then it may be a great encouragement to others who are thinking about trying to learn violin when they compare it with how much better you play even a few months from now.  Maybe explain some of the things you learn along the way as you are learning them, and it might save someone else some frustration.

I wouldn't class that as "teaching" as much as sharing your own ongoing learning experience, without presenting yourself as any sort of authority on the matter.  Some people do that, and it does actually help some folks.  

When I had just ordered my first violin, I was having some second thoughts and thinking about cancelling the order.  It is said to be (with some justification) one of the most challenging instruments to learn, and I had some doubts about starting at 51 yrs old.  But I did find video, audio and blogs by people who were adults and self teaching, and seeing how much they improved over a few months was reassuring.  It helped me get my "I can do this" attitude rolling.  

Even if I have misunderstood what you are trying to do, I'll still say that videos, audio, and even blogs that are by beginners can definitely help some people.  So I feel what you've done so far is definitely worthwhile. 

So far as how may times you say "umm" or "uhh" or whatever it was, that's not important.  64 times you counted?  Do another 64 in the next video or shoot for 128, if you like.  It isn't important.  The content of what you are saying and the playing are what are important.  This is Fiddlerman.com, not Publicspeaking.com or VideoEngineeringandPresentation.com and I would like to think that everyone here would understand that.  Most do, and a lot of the regulars here are wonderful people.

What gets passed off as a sense of humor by some here.. Well, I'd have to agree with you in not seeing it as such.  That's why to date I have posted a total of only one video, and almost took that one down.  I am not currently much inclined to consider posting other videos here in the future, either.  So far you've put up a few.  More than I did.  You're braver than me, O~. 

Bravo.

Just keep at it and take it in little bites at first.  One bit or bar you get down is worth a bunch you can sort of muddle through, when you're starting out.  Just go at it like you'd have to go at eating an elephant.  One bite at a time.

I have heard people starting out worse who sounded surprisingly much better after a few months or even weeks.   

With the tape, don't worry about it, just use it if it helps for now.  I doubt you'll need it for long, you just don't want it to turn into too much of a security blanket.  If you had a teacher, they might insist on the tapes, regardless of the prevalent opinions regarding tapes on this forum.  I still have part of one tape on my electric.  I leave it on just for my own amusement.  The last bit of it will wear off someday.  But using them at first, I didn't die of tape poisoning or anything, so don't worry.  LOL 

 

PS.. Y'know.. considering that with the two people that gave you a hard time about "umm", one of them is a gigging musician who definitely has experience under his belt and the other has violin students, that they could have given some more useful musical advice to a beginner than their thoughts on "umm".  I guess that would be in a more perfect world though, huh?

Lord have mercy on us if we have to read the long winded version....rofl

There is no shame in playing twinkle, youre playing Mozart

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Picklefish
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October 28, 2012 - 4:46 pm
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now I am not joining in on the picking on the long short post comment, but that is dang funny!

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Almandin
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DanielB said

When I had just ordered my first violin, I was having some second thoughts and thinking about cancelling the order.  It is said to be (with some justification) one of the most challenging instruments to learn, and I had some doubts about starting at 51 yrs old.  But I did find video, audio and blogs by people who were adults and self teaching, and seeing how much they improved over a few months was reassuring.  It helped me get my "I can do this" attitude rolling.  

/.../

Just keep at it and take it in little bites at first.  One bit or bar you get down is worth a bunch you can sort of muddle through, when you're starting out.  Just go at it like you'd have to go at eating an elephant.  One bite at a time.

clap Well said, Daniel! I always read your long posts, because they never fail to teach me things and inspire me. People like you make this forum great! hats_off

I had that same experience when I first started; I found NoirVelours's YouTube videos (where did she go, btw? I miss her!) and was so stoked to get started up the same path of improvement that she was on. I'm sure you, O~ will have the same influence on future players. Keep at it! cheerleader

~ Once you've ruled out the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true. ~

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cdennyb
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October 28, 2012 - 9:33 pm
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Daniel... all I can say buddy is I'm sooooo glad you didn't write the long version! facepalm

 

I didn't bring a sack lunch and I was getting dehydrated as it was....roflolroflolroflol

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Gail
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October 28, 2012 - 11:02 pm
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CircleTilde, If I may make a suggestion.  You're using numbers to denote the strings.  Look at fiddlerman's arrangement of Ave Maria.  You'll notice he uses Roman numerals for the strings and regular numbers for the fingers.  I think you'll find it less confusing later to switch to Roman numerals now for the strings.  Also, instead of reciting the notes A B C etc, try reciting the finger numbers, using O for open string, 1 for first finger, and so on.  I hope this helps.

cool   

I've learned so much from my mistakes that I've decided to make some more.

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Fiddlerman
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October 28, 2012 - 11:42 pm
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Chris,

I enjoy your videos as well as your attitude. I think it's sometimes easier to watch someone talk about what they are doing than to read it and understand.

You'll benefit greatly from doing that and your progress will be accelerated. I think that making fun of Chris's fillers is out of place and I hope it ends here.

 

Fillers By Dr Stephen Juan

"Um", "er", and "ah" are what linguists call "fillers". "Fillers" help conversations continue smoothly.

Although we may not consciously realise it, in a two-person conversation, people speak by taking turns. When someone thinks it is their turn to talk, they do. Otherwise, they listen. A two-person conversation becomes like a tennis match. Inevitably there are short periods of silence as people pause to let the other person take over the speaking. But sometimes a speaker doesn’t want to give up their turn and instead wants a little extra time to think about what they’re going to say next. They use a “filler” to signal this.

When a listener hears the “filler”, they continue listening rather than start talking. “Um”, “er”, and “ah” are examples of phonemes. In linguistics, phonemes are the smallest meaningless speech sounds humans make. The smallest meaningful speech sounds humans make are called “morphemes”. Everything we humans say is either meaningless or meaningful. A lot of people never learn the difference.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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DanielB
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I hate to disappoint folks, I really do.  Gospel truth, I was working on a really good long post.  But then the buddy I gave my MV300, "Punkin" to dropped by.  He'd had a bit of a bad day and just happened to have Punkin with him, and well.. We ended up drinking coffee and jamming for an hour or two.  When I got back to that long post I was writing, I just had lost the inclination somewhere.  So I'll post about that session in the thread I already have going on teaching a buddy, instead. 

Sorry folks.  It's just the way it goes sometimes. 

dunno

I'll try to write longer in the future.

 

@Almandin: Yeah, Noir Velours was doing weekly video updates when I first got here and it was a great inspiration and encouragement to me over my first few months.  Hope she's ok and having a good time playing.  

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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suresh
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Hi Circle~!  You are going along nicely.  I am sure after sometime you will discontinue writing the note names and the string numbers as you are sure of where to find the low G, next high G etc. Everybody has his own way of learning.

My only advice to you is keep it very slow.  Why I am stressing  this is it has helped me focus on tone, time, muscle memory etc.  Keep up the good work.  Expect your next in a month's time.  Good luck.thumbs-up

 

P.S.  about counting like 1-an-2-an, let somebody guide you.

If music be the food of love, play on;
Give me excess of it ..(William Shakespeare in Twelfth Night)

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