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Need help to identify the model of this violin
As the topic name leads..
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NoneOfTheAbove
Stockholm, Sweden
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November 6, 2012 - 5:17 pm
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Hi!

I was visiting my friend in Falun, which is a small small place 4 hours above Stockholm and we happened to visit a second hand store in which I found something interesting. Of course it was a violin, a really really old violin and since it was pretty cheap I had to buy it because it looked splendid. I have no idea what kind of model this is but I'm pretty sure it's really really old since it's very worn out. I talked to the person who published it and the only thing he knew about it was that it was owned by a very old lady which sold it to him in a different second hand store. He also thought that it might be a violin from the 1900th century by judging it from the look. So do you guys have any idea of what this is? Tried it out by the way, added a bridge and the sound was much better than my original violins sound. It included a bow which is also very worn out, having lost a lot of hair as you can see in the pictures below.

It cost 250 SEK (approximately 33 US dollars).

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Thanks in advance :)
Alexander.

It doesn't mean anything unless it's real

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TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
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November 6, 2012 - 5:30 pm
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Baroque style by the look of it to my my limited eye.
I am working on a similar violin. Paid £30 from someone who found it clearing out an attic in an old English mansion.
Be interested to know what others with more knowledge than me think of it.

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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cdennyb
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November 6, 2012 - 6:11 pm
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I immediately noticed the one piece back! Very nice.

Any labels or writing inside? The strings of course look thrashed and the pegs appear to be worn but unless they don't move smoothly, no ream and trim is required.

The overall condition looks used and obviously not a new reproduction. But... in good condition

Someone allowed the fine tuners to dig into the top under the tail piece but a little TLC would repair that minor damage easily.

I would think a good cleaning and measurement session to decide if everything is in order and then slap on some new (synthetic core) strings and set the bridge where it should go along with the soundpost and see if it's a keeper.

Very nice for the price..thumbs-up

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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Barry
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November 6, 2012 - 6:17 pm
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Im no expert but just some observations. The body seems slender like a Stainer copy. The scroll makes me feel like its possibly a German trade fiddle.

She has some age without a doubt. The saddle is not uniform in shape appearing hand carved. The end button looks to large and dosent seem to fit right as well as the pegs.

may even be handmade by a lesser known builder.

She a beauty though and love the back.

There is no shame in playing twinkle, youre playing Mozart

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ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
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November 6, 2012 - 6:23 pm
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NoneOfTheAbove said
 

It cost 250 SEK (approximately 33 US dollars).

 

Can't beat that price though.

 

cdennyb said 

I immediately noticed the one piece back! Very nice.

 

Thank you for your evaluation as I've learned from that as well.

Is one piece back better, in term of tonal?

Best Regards,

Robert

 

 

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cdennyb
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November 6, 2012 - 6:31 pm
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There's a couple of schools of thought on the back thing.

Some say the harmonics and flexibility are greater on a one piece back because of the uniform grain structure and lack of interference producing edges like those caused by two butt ends of maple or whatever with a coating of glue between them. Some say you can get better wood in smaller pieces and gluing them together (book end style) doesn't cause any sound issues at all because of the density of the glue being very close to the density of seasoned wood.

I've noticed that a lot of very high dollar violins have 1-piece backs. Although all 3 of mine have 2-piece backs and they sound pretty damn good, I can't help but think I should get another violin with a 1-piece back and see if my analysis and mods along with repeated adjustments would produce a better violin.cheers

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
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November 6, 2012 - 6:43 pm
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Can you see a bass bar inside throug the left ear F hole?

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

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RosinedUp
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November 6, 2012 - 7:03 pm
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Yeah, strange how the saddle is off-center.

Do you see any cracks or separated seams?

If you clean it, study how to beforehand so you don't harm it.  But it doesn't seem to need much cleaning.

You might show a close up of the joint between the neck and the body, to determine whether it has a through neck.

The joints between the C bouts and the other bouts will tell where in Germany it was probably made if it is 19th Century German factory.

Looks like a great find!  I believe I would give $33 for that in about one minute.

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ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
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November 6, 2012 - 7:04 pm
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cdennyb said
There's a couple of schools of thought on the back thing.

Some say the harmonics and flexibility are greater on a one piece back because of the uniform grain structure and lack of interference producing edges like those caused by two butt ends of maple or whatever with a coating of glue between them. Some say you can get better wood in smaller pieces and gluing them together (book end style) doesn't cause any sound issues at all because of the density of the glue being very close to the density of seasoned wood.

I've noticed that a lot of very high dollar violins have 1-piece backs. Although all 3 of mine have 2-piece backs and they sound pretty damn good, I can't help but think I should get another violin with a 1-piece back and see if my analysis and mods along with repeated adjustments would produce a better violin.cheers

Thanks, cdennyb, for your quick response. Your analyzing about the one piece back is the best detailed answer I've got among countless research throughout web pages which were resulting in nothing much.

If I happen to get a one piece back violin would you do a sound analysis for it as I really like to find out as well?

Best Regards,

Robert

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
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November 6, 2012 - 7:25 pm
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From what I see, there are no fine tuner's at all on it, the scratche's under the tailpiece are from the ball end of the string's digging for the lack of a bridge.

It appear's that the F hole's are a bit longer, which would in my opinion indicate maybe French, along with the bow,, very unique bow shape.

I think Kevin could tell ya more about it. He's very knowlegeable on violin's.

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NoneOfTheAbove
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November 7, 2012 - 5:35 am
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RosinedUp said
Do you see any cracks or separated seams?

Yes there are two small cracks by the f hole's. Not big though, but big enough to see that it seperates the wood.

TerryT said
Can you see a bass bar inside throug the left ear F hole?

Yep!

cdennyb said

Any labels or writing inside? The strings of course look thrashed and the pegs appear to be worn but unless they don't move smoothly, no ream and trim is required.

Someone allowed the fine tuners to dig into the top under the tail piece but a little TLC would repair that minor damage easily.

I would think a good cleaning and measurement session to decide if everything is in order and then slap on some new (synthetic core) strings and set the bridge where it should go along with the soundpost and see if it's a keeper.

No labels, no writings, checked everywhere. No fine tuners on the tailpiece. Everything is wood and the saddle carries a hard rope in order to attach it on that button, which makes me wonder if it's really frmo the 19th century since they didn't use any plastic.

Fiddlestix said
From what I see, there are no fine tuner's at all on it, the scratche's under the tailpiece are from the ball end of the string's digging for the lack of a bridge.

It appear's that the F hole's are a bit longer, which would in my opinion indicate maybe French, along with the bow,, very unique bow shape.

I think Kevin could tell ya more about it. He's very knowlegeable on violin's.

Yeah there are no fine tuners. Thanks for all the guessings and suggestions! :)

It doesn't mean anything unless it's real

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Almandin
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Wow, that is beautiful! You'll bring it for our next session, won't you? drooling Maybe you should get new strings, though, because they look totally dead... Or you could take those from your other violin...

~ Once you've ruled out the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true. ~

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Kevin M.
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November 7, 2012 - 9:56 am
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To me it doesn't look German.  The scroll is wrong to be german and the f holes are large.  With the saddle off center I thinkl this is a prewar Japonese. Just my opinion.

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NoneOfTheAbove
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November 7, 2012 - 10:16 am
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Almandin said
Wow, that is beautiful! You'll bring it for our next session, won't you? drooling Maybe you should get new strings, though, because they look totally dead... Or you could take those from your other violin...

 

They are far from dead! These strings are better than the strings I have on my original violin. However I replaced these strings in order to have those on my original violin and it sounds awesome :)

and thanks Kevin.

It doesn't mean anything unless it's real

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RosinedUp
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Kevin M. said
To me it doesn't look German.  The scroll is wrong to be german and the f holes are large.  With the saddle off center I thinkl this is a prewar Japonese. Just my opinion.

I wouldn't say it's German either.

Can you say more about the saddle being off center?

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