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Soundpost
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NoirVelours
Quebec

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April 18, 2012 - 2:05 pm
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So we talked about soundposts and bridges and I got curious and tried to check in mine. I saw the soundpost alright and I was wondering... where is it supposed to be positionned in relation to the feet of the bridge? Is it supposed to be directly under because mine seems a bit below it and to the side, Is my violin handicaped or will he be fine?

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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cdennyb
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April 18, 2012 - 2:10 pm
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the honest truthful answer is...

"...where it makes the instrument sound the best."

because there is no set spot that is the same on all violins.

It's a trial & error thing and for the most part, it only makes a tiny bit of difference in most relocations.

Usually the post is generally 1 post diameter from the treble (E string side) side of the bridge foot. and directly back from the bridge (towards the tailpiece)

That's a place to start.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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NoirVelours
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April 18, 2012 - 2:35 pm
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Ok well I'm reassured then, I was sure it had to be directly under the bridge lol (I'm such a noob). Looks like my baby boy won't have to see a doctor.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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ftufc
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April 18, 2012 - 3:35 pm
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In reading NV's post it made me think to ask the forum this question -

I bought/rcvd a new violin 10 days ago; it is heavenly and, at this point, is way above my playing ability,,, but I'm in LOVE with it.  When I rcvd it I noticed that the sound post is VERY slightly askew from straight up and down; the top is slightly less than 1/8" behind the bottom.  It seems to be exactly where it should be; it was professionally set up when I bought it (I understand things that aren't "nailed in place" can move during shipping); the instrument sounds like nothing I've ever heard before (even with me playing it), and it's only gotten better over the past 10 days.

So, do I take it to a luthier to get the post perfectly perpendicular or keep playing it as is???  Would you expect that there is a risk of the tipped post causing damage to the inside of the belly or back?  It's not like the post is made of metal, in fact the sound post wood is probably softer than the Italian spruce or Bosnian maple.

What would you say????

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Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA

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April 18, 2012 - 3:59 pm
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If you have no experience with resetting or adjusting a sound post, I would take it to a luthier and let him check it out. Probably a minimal fee or he may move it for free.

You may even realize a richer tone to your fiddle.

 

                                               smile

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Oliver
NC

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April 18, 2012 - 4:10 pm
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The sound post belongs 3 mm behind the bridge and in line with the bridge foot.

Many people have violins with (acceptable) crooked posts.  1/8" doesn't sound like too much.  I have one violin that is about 1/8 out.

Your much bigger concern is that the sound post was not installed with too much pressure which can warp the top around the f-hole and make a crack in the long term.  If the sound post was one that has been in the violin right along, it probably is the right (vertical) fit. 

I would be very reluctant to "fix" a sound post on a great sounding instrument.  Of course, you could engage a luthier just to have "a look" which might allow you to rest easier coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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ftufc
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April 18, 2012 - 4:20 pm
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Thank you Oliver for that great advice and insight.  I had no idea if this was an acceptable condition or not.  And truly, the instrument sounds heavenly.  So I won't worry about it,,, but when it's convenient, I'll just get a luthier's opinion on it.  Thank you! thumbs-up

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cdennyb
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April 18, 2012 - 7:10 pm
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to add to Olivers weath of experience, I have noticed some violins actually sound better with the post slightly out of straight up and down. Perhaps it's due to the tuning of the plates or body and back, fit of the post ends or whatever... even if it looks like it's not straight don't worry if it sounds good.

That's the bottom line, does it sound great, then leave well enough alone.

Most schools of thought are that the post should fit just with a touch of tension as it's slid into place. A proper fitted post will have the top and bottom slanted to make as much contact with the front and back as possible, which means they are directional in their construction. Only fit the best in one direction, and the top and bottom are different.

3 mm is only a touch over a 1/10 of an inch. or .118" to be more precise. A typical post needs to be small enough to fit thru the ff hole so usually in the neighborhood of 5.5 to 6 mm in dia is a typical size. That means the post would be 1/2 dia behind the bridge (usually) but some violins like the post further away. Moving the post one way or the other side to side will enhance a certain spectrum of sound, either the E string side or G string side. Some are even tapered at the ends, some are even made from crystals mounted between wood posts (whatever!) but using a wood such as close grained dry, DRY, spruce is the standard. Softer woods tend to collapse and don't work well. The post can't be too long or it exerts excess pressure against the top and bottom unnecessarily and can cause a 'bump' to appear and eventually a "soundpost crack" can develop, (very bad).

I personally have made two posts for mine, and moved them many times seeking that perfect sound, and I feel I have reached the point of diminishing returns... I'm leaving it where it's at for the time being. I can make a different shape and fit of a bridge and affect the sound almost as much. If I were to slack off the tension of the strings all at the same time, and bumped the side with my open palm, the post would dislodge, that's how little interference there is. As the humidity goes up & down you will find a post may get looser and tighter, but as long as there's tension on a string or two everything will stay put except in the worst possible case, you drop it to the floor!

 

There's a lot already in the forum on the subject, I'm probably just repeating what's already been said. But it is an interesting subject all it's own. I have done quite a bit of test and sound analysis concerning a post and bridge placement and design, and find it almost overwhelming in variables and results achieved.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

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ftufc
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April 19, 2012 - 1:56 am
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Denny, that explanation was VERY helpful, thank you so much.  In fact, as I look at it, my sound post is exactly as you described it, the ends aren't 90^ cuts on each end, they are cut on a slight bias , so each end actually does meet flush against each side. 

That's why I asked the question; I didn't know if it was perhaps intentionally cut that way, so it must be by design and not misaligned.

Thanks Denny!

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
April 19, 2012 - 11:23 pm
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I would like to add that if it sounds great don't move it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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ftufc
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April 20, 2012 - 10:28 am
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Consistent same good advice; thanks all,,, not gonna touch it

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TerryT
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April 21, 2012 - 2:26 pm
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My A and E trings always sounds too shrill!
This guy suffers with the same problem
feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ok, I am joking of course!!

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

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NoirVelours
Quebec

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April 21, 2012 - 2:32 pm
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I make faces like that when I play on my E string lol, probably not for the same reason though wink

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

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TerryT
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April 21, 2012 - 3:49 pm
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NoirVelours said

I make faces like that when I play on my E string lol, probably not for the same reason though wink

Couldn't possibly comment and I've had too much brandy to write in Franadian!!

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

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ADK-Mark
Adirondacks, NY
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January 28, 2013 - 9:46 pm
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My sound post fell over... my new sound post setting tool is too dull to peirce the sound post, so I will sharpen it and experiement around.  This guys approach is a bit too technical but I almost followed his steps:

 

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 28, 2013 - 11:10 pm
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Why not? LOL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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RosinedUp

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January 29, 2013 - 9:18 am
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Mt. Fiddler said
My sound post fell over... my new sound post setting tool is too dull to peirce the sound post, so I will sharpen it and experiement around.

You can make a setting tool by using a file and then a sharpening stone on a section of steel coat hanger wire.  You give it a long sharp edge like the edge of a tine axe head.

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VinceKnight
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January 29, 2013 - 12:11 pm
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Why would you do that!!!!!!!!!!!!  I don't care if it was a crappy violin!!!!!   Why?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

lol I'm going to go cry in a corner now :D lol

The pack depends upon the wolf, and the wolf depends upon the pack. The loss of one means the destruction of the other.

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RosinedUp

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January 29, 2013 - 12:41 pm
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VinceKnight said
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Why would you do that!!!!!!!!!!!!  I don't care if it was a crappy violin!!!!!   Why?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

lol I'm going to go cry in a corner now :D lol

Yeah, and the clown didn't even make a good video of the destruction.  His arm was in the way.  So he is an idiot in two ways.

 

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Steve
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January 29, 2013 - 1:54 pm
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Hey, lighten up! You guys need to see his other videos and read the comments. This is just one of several humorous skits he does. He only uses cheap plastic worthless violins--no wooden violins were harmed! I find his videos hilarious.

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