FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Soundpost
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
NoirVelours
Quebec
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 2:05 pm
Member Since: March 28, 2012
Forum Posts: 822
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

So we talked about soundposts and bridges and I got curious and tried to check in mine. I saw the soundpost alright and I was wondering... where is it supposed to be positionned in relation to the feet of the bridge? Is it supposed to be directly under because mine seems a bit below it and to the side, Is my violin handicaped or will he be fine?

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

Avatar
cdennyb
King for a Day, Peasant for many
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 2:10 pm
Member Since: February 13, 2012
Forum Posts: 1774
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

the honest truthful answer is...

"...where it makes the instrument sound the best."

because there is no set spot that is the same on all violins.

It's a trial & error thing and for the most part, it only makes a tiny bit of difference in most relocations.

Usually the post is generally 1 post diameter from the treble (E string side) side of the bridge foot. and directly back from the bridge (towards the tailpiece)

That's a place to start.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

Avatar
NoirVelours
Quebec
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 2:35 pm
Member Since: March 28, 2012
Forum Posts: 822
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ok well I'm reassured then, I was sure it had to be directly under the bridge lol (I'm such a noob). Looks like my baby boy won't have to see a doctor.

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 3:35 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

In reading NV's post it made me think to ask the forum this question -

I bought/rcvd a new violin 10 days ago; it is heavenly and, at this point, is way above my playing ability,,, but I'm in LOVE with it.  When I rcvd it I noticed that the sound post is VERY slightly askew from straight up and down; the top is slightly less than 1/8" behind the bottom.  It seems to be exactly where it should be; it was professionally set up when I bought it (I understand things that aren't "nailed in place" can move during shipping); the instrument sounds like nothing I've ever heard before (even with me playing it), and it's only gotten better over the past 10 days.

So, do I take it to a luthier to get the post perfectly perpendicular or keep playing it as is???  Would you expect that there is a risk of the tipped post causing damage to the inside of the belly or back?  It's not like the post is made of metal, in fact the sound post wood is probably softer than the Italian spruce or Bosnian maple.

What would you say????

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 3:59 pm
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If you have no experience with resetting or adjusting a sound post, I would take it to a luthier and let him check it out. Probably a minimal fee or he may move it for free.

You may even realize a richer tone to your fiddle.

 

                                               smile

Avatar
Oliver
NC
King
Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 4:10 pm
Member Since: February 28, 2011
Forum Posts: 2439
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The sound post belongs 3 mm behind the bridge and in line with the bridge foot.

Many people have violins with (acceptable) crooked posts.  1/8" doesn't sound like too much.  I have one violin that is about 1/8 out.

Your much bigger concern is that the sound post was not installed with too much pressure which can warp the top around the f-hole and make a crack in the long term.  If the sound post was one that has been in the violin right along, it probably is the right (vertical) fit. 

I would be very reluctant to "fix" a sound post on a great sounding instrument.  Of course, you could engage a luthier just to have "a look" which might allow you to rest easier coffee2

When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 4:20 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thank you Oliver for that great advice and insight.  I had no idea if this was an acceptable condition or not.  And truly, the instrument sounds heavenly.  So I won't worry about it,,, but when it's convenient, I'll just get a luthier's opinion on it.  Thank you! thumbs-up

Avatar
cdennyb
King for a Day, Peasant for many
Members

Regulars
April 18, 2012 - 7:10 pm
Member Since: February 13, 2012
Forum Posts: 1774
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

to add to Olivers weath of experience, I have noticed some violins actually sound better with the post slightly out of straight up and down. Perhaps it's due to the tuning of the plates or body and back, fit of the post ends or whatever... even if it looks like it's not straight don't worry if it sounds good.

That's the bottom line, does it sound great, then leave well enough alone.

Most schools of thought are that the post should fit just with a touch of tension as it's slid into place. A proper fitted post will have the top and bottom slanted to make as much contact with the front and back as possible, which means they are directional in their construction. Only fit the best in one direction, and the top and bottom are different.

3 mm is only a touch over a 1/10 of an inch. or .118" to be more precise. A typical post needs to be small enough to fit thru the ff hole so usually in the neighborhood of 5.5 to 6 mm in dia is a typical size. That means the post would be 1/2 dia behind the bridge (usually) but some violins like the post further away. Moving the post one way or the other side to side will enhance a certain spectrum of sound, either the E string side or G string side. Some are even tapered at the ends, some are even made from crystals mounted between wood posts (whatever!) but using a wood such as close grained dry, DRY, spruce is the standard. Softer woods tend to collapse and don't work well. The post can't be too long or it exerts excess pressure against the top and bottom unnecessarily and can cause a 'bump' to appear and eventually a "soundpost crack" can develop, (very bad).

I personally have made two posts for mine, and moved them many times seeking that perfect sound, and I feel I have reached the point of diminishing returns... I'm leaving it where it's at for the time being. I can make a different shape and fit of a bridge and affect the sound almost as much. If I were to slack off the tension of the strings all at the same time, and bumped the side with my open palm, the post would dislodge, that's how little interference there is. As the humidity goes up & down you will find a post may get looser and tighter, but as long as there's tension on a string or two everything will stay put except in the worst possible case, you drop it to the floor!

 

There's a lot already in the forum on the subject, I'm probably just repeating what's already been said. But it is an interesting subject all it's own. I have done quite a bit of test and sound analysis concerning a post and bridge placement and design, and find it almost overwhelming in variables and results achieved.

"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 19, 2012 - 1:56 am
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Denny, that explanation was VERY helpful, thank you so much.  In fact, as I look at it, my sound post is exactly as you described it, the ends aren't 90^ cuts on each end, they are cut on a slight bias , so each end actually does meet flush against each side. 

That's why I asked the question; I didn't know if it was perhaps intentionally cut that way, so it must be by design and not misaligned.

Thanks Denny!

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
April 19, 2012 - 11:23 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I would like to add that if it sounds great don't move it.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 20, 2012 - 10:28 am
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Consistent same good advice; thanks all,,, not gonna touch it

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
April 21, 2012 - 2:26 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1698
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

My A and E trings always sounds too shrill!
This guy suffers with the same problem
feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ok, I am joking of course!!

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

Avatar
NoirVelours
Quebec
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 21, 2012 - 2:32 pm
Member Since: March 28, 2012
Forum Posts: 822
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I make faces like that when I play on my E string lol, probably not for the same reason though wink

"It can sing like a bird, it can cry like a human being, it can be very angry, it can be all that humans are" Maxim Vengerov

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
April 21, 2012 - 3:49 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1698
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

NoirVelours said

I make faces like that when I play on my E string lol, probably not for the same reason though wink

Couldn't possibly comment and I've had too much brandy to write in Franadian!!

I was born with nothing,
and to my surprise I still have most of it left!

Avatar
Mt. Fiddler
Adirondacks, NY
Members

Regulars
January 28, 2013 - 9:46 pm
Member Since: December 31, 2012
Forum Posts: 134
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

My sound post fell over... my new sound post setting tool is too dull to peirce the sound post, so I will sharpen it and experiement around.  This guys approach is a bit too technical but I almost followed his steps:

 

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
January 28, 2013 - 11:10 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Why not? LOL

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
January 29, 2013 - 9:18 am
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Mt. Fiddler said
My sound post fell over... my new sound post setting tool is too dull to peirce the sound post, so I will sharpen it and experiement around.

You can make a setting tool by using a file and then a sharpening stone on a section of steel coat hanger wire.  You give it a long sharp edge like the edge of a tine axe head.

Avatar
VinceKnight
Middlfield, Ohio
Members
January 29, 2013 - 12:11 pm
Member Since: January 7, 2013
Forum Posts: 86
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Why would you do that!!!!!!!!!!!!  I don't care if it was a crappy violin!!!!!   Why?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

lol I'm going to go cry in a corner now :D lol

The pack depends upon the wolf, and the wolf depends upon the pack. The loss of one means the destruction of the other.

Avatar
RosinedUp
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
January 29, 2013 - 12:41 pm
Member Since: September 7, 2012
Forum Posts: 985
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

VinceKnight said
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Why would you do that!!!!!!!!!!!!  I don't care if it was a crappy violin!!!!!   Why?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

lol I'm going to go cry in a corner now :D lol

Yeah, and the clown didn't even make a good video of the destruction.  His arm was in the way.  So he is an idiot in two ways.

 

Avatar
Steve
Oregon
Members

Regulars
January 29, 2013 - 1:54 pm
Member Since: December 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 256
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hey, lighten up! You guys need to see his other videos and read the comments. This is just one of several humorous skits he does. He only uses cheap plastic worthless violins--no wooden violins were harmed! I find his videos hilarious.

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online:
41 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today HeadCheese
Upcoming Mad_Wed, Prudence, ButteryStuffs, kit, makinnoise

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3767

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3558

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6446

Posts: 80399

Newest Members:

stringo, sexymom04, FerSZ, elaine a, Mukundan, MyMing

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11717, KindaScratchy: 1651