FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Update on my ebay escapades
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
October 13, 2012 - 9:39 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

On the chance that anyone might find this interesting; I've mentioned that I took Kevin's advice and started purchasing a few violins/violas on ebay; one is my dream violin, one smelled like a drunk vomited in it, etc..  I think I also mentioned that I was going to bring my favs up to a great appraiser in LA to see exactly what I had, and here's the outcome........

  • The Albani - turns out not to be the 1760's $100k Italian I was hoping it was, but an incredible sounding 1890 - 1905 handmade German, strangely made of some spectacular wood, worth about $12k
  • The Jarek Wojcek - turns out it is an authentic, wonderful sounding 1910 handmade Polish worth about $9k
  • the American (made in Oregon) - worthless
  • no label German - turns out to be a decent sounding late 1800's handmade German worth about $1800 - $2000
  • and the Italian Viola (earlier known as "The Beast") - turns out to be a very nice sounding 1920's handmade Italian worth about $1800 - $2000
  • the Snow Viola - sounds great, exactly what it says it is, worth about $1600
  • the Preschner bow - turns out to be a very nice authentic but instead of the $1600 I thought it was worth it is really worth about $600 because the fittings are nickel not silver
So my initial reaction was disappointment, but after thinking about it,,, I LOVE the sound of the Albani (copy) and I didn't intend to sell it anyway and the value is 20x what I paid for it; happy to get confirmation on my beliefs of the Wojcek and will try to sell it for $9k but happy to play it until it sells; and happy to sell the Italian Viola for $1800 and will happily play until it sells.
 
As important as the outcome, I learned several important points of instrument recognition which will help me when bidding on others.
 
And, as I've mentioned before, I now have 6 violins & 2 violas that I've brought into great condition, adjusted, put new quality strings on, sometimes fitted a new bridge and/or nut and will sell.  If anyone is interested, PM me and I'll give more details of exactly what I have.
 
It's been a VERY fun experience; I've learned so much and am still learning everything I can.  And I'll continue to acquire what I think are quality instruments and get them into great condition.
Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
October 14, 2012 - 10:49 am
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That sounds wonderful Fred.  For me the best part is getting some old piece that is no longer wanted and broken then turning it into a beautiful instrument for someone to play.

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
October 14, 2012 - 11:43 am
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That would be very rewarding Kevin.  I'm not at your level of skill/confidence yet, but I'm working toward it.  I still haven't "popped the top" yet, or repaired a plate crack, or repaired a finish, but I've successfully done just about everything else.

One of the violins I recently bought, for $80, is sort of the kind you're talking about though, and I'm just about to take the plunge, lol.  It is  John Juzek (from Prague) that, in fine condition, is worth about $1800; but the pegs are jacked up, the tail pin needs to be repaired, and some jackass carved words in the back so deep that I'm going to have to sand it out and build the thickness back up somehow; it will most likely ruin the sound but it's my "experiment".

You've been a wealth of great advice in regard to repair, so I'm following your comments very closely.  Hey, I'd love to see some pics of your finished projects if you have any!

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
October 14, 2012 - 12:18 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Fred. to repair the carving on the violin don't sand it out.  What you want to do is to carve it out and inlay a piece of similar wood. So try it.

First find a piece that might match the grain then cut out a piece to cover the carving.

Place the patch piece of wood over the carving and mark it's location on the violin. I would use painters tape.

Now cut out the carving leaving the cut slightly smaller than the patch. Just carve deep enough to take out the words, about 1mm - 2mm deep just be carfull not to go through.

Next fit the patch into the cutout and glue it in.

Plane and sand the patch flush and you're done.

 

This is basically the same process for repairing a dent from the sound post. It won't change the tone but sanding the carving out will effect it.

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 14, 2012 - 2:30 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717

Kevin M. said
Next fit the patch into the cutout and glue it in.

How do you do that Kevin? How do you get the patch to fit perfectly? Or do you make it so thin that you can bend it? What kind of glue do you use?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
October 14, 2012 - 3:20 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Kevin - sounds like a breeze, lmao!

I think I get it, but the challenges for me aren't matching the patch to the cutout, but finding the right wood for a patch; and then shaping it to match the contour of the rest of the body.

You're not talking about a thin veneer of any kind of wood for the patch right?  Doesn't it have to be of the same type of wood, usually quartersawn maple, then plane the outside (since you're not cutting out the part of the back that's carve you also have to carve out the carving to a uniform surface so the [flat] bottom of the patch sits onto the carved out wood, and then shape the top of the patch to match the rest of the contour.  This is a large section of the back (3" x 4"), it covers a lot of territory.

Pierre, that's a question I've had for a while (which glue), because I can't imagine you'd use hide glue (like on the seems), you'd want a more permanent bond.  And then with a layer of glue between the old piece and the patch, there is surely some dampening of sound quality I would imagine.

If I can find the right piece of wood, I'll give it a shot though Kevin; cuz I understand the concept and think I can physically achieve it; it's just those few aspects I'm unsure of.  Any recommendations to those questions Kevin?

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
October 15, 2012 - 11:41 am
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The patch piece of wood should be a very thin veneer so it it will conform to the shape of the violin body.  You can heat it first to help it conform and then glue it in with hide glue.

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
October 15, 2012 - 12:18 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

violin-patch.jpgImage Enlarger

You can see in this picture that the patch is very thin. This is showing fitting the patch to the cut-out using chalk to find the high spots.  I prefer to use a thin veneer and heat it to shape it to fit rather than carve it to fit. Although the wood will never match completely the luthier has made a decorative shape out of the patch this way even though you can see the patch it will appear to be made that way originally.

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Crazymotive
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
October 15, 2012 - 2:35 pm
Member Since: January 18, 2012
Forum Posts: 342
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Kevin M. said
The patch piece of wood should be a very thin veneer so it it will conform to the shape of the violin body.  You can heat it first to help it conform and then glue it in with hide glue.

How do you heat it ?   Do you use the dry heat of a flame or, do you boil or steam the wood to heat and soften ?  Also, I'd imagine you would fasten it in place with hide glue ?

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
October 16, 2012 - 8:32 am
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1957
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

This will sound strange but here goes. Soak the piece in water for awhile then wrap in  a wet towel and put in the microwave on high.  Yes use hide glue but in this case it would be sometyhing you or anyone else would never take apart so tightbond could be used.

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
October 19, 2012 - 4:12 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks Kevin, that makes so much more sense than how I first interpreted what you were saying.

I think before I do a full blown patch, I'm going to see how the violin sounds (when I get it all put back together) with the thinner back (where I sanded) and just evaluate the sound as is.  If it just doesn't sound at least "decent", I'll jump into a patch.  If I do it, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online: yellowdresses, stet
37 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today HeadCheese
Upcoming Mad_Wed, Prudence, ButteryStuffs, kit, makinnoise

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3767

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3562

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6446

Posts: 80404

Newest Members:

EKBanjo, charlieD, Folky fiddler, Morgenes42, stringo, sexymom04

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11717, KindaScratchy: 1651