FORUM

Please have a look at our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Violin peg position
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (1 votes) 
Avatar
DanielB
Regulars

Members
April 27, 2013 - 11:12 am
Member Since: May 4, 2012
Forum Posts: 2379
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I had never thought much about it, until I saw this vid.  My pegs are just however they end up when the instrument is in tune.

 

 

So, the question for the old hands would be "Is this actually important?"  I don't think I've seen it mentioned before.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
April 27, 2013 - 11:29 am
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

interesting. since I am no expert I can say that the peg being at the right angle does make it easier to get the leverage I need for one handed adjustments. I will wait to see if there are any more informed who object but it doesnt seem to be a bad thing, very little string seems to be removed. I always thought some of the string needed to stick out through the peg for instance

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
StoneDog
Members

Regulars
April 27, 2013 - 12:36 pm
Member Since: January 14, 2013
Forum Posts: 885
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am curious what others will say also. The FM vid shows to leave a tad of the string out. This vid stresses having the end of the string flush.The FM vid also does a double lock over on the string. This one did not. It would only make senses to have the pegs in position for easy tuning. This vid was really good to show how to do so. I often wonder how am I going to get the peg just right after the string is wound on it. This vid clears that up.

Avatar
Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
Members

Regulars
April 27, 2013 - 4:13 pm
Member Since: October 7, 2011
Forum Posts: 2849
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Nice! I use pegs to tune the violin. Thought of something like this couple times, but i'm too lazy and i'm not handy, so there's a danger that i'll make more mess, LOL! Anyway, i have a good excuse to use random-angled pegs - i'm not a pro =) And i'll put the CF tailpiece with fine tuners on my Kohr soon, because my teacher always yells at me, that i don't have them =)

But that's a great video for those who needs to tune the violin quickly with the pegs only!! Thanks for sharing!

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 27, 2013 - 7:43 pm
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That's really a great video, but I had planetary peg's installed on my violin, Friday and love them. It make's tuning a breeze and can do it now while holding the violin in position under my jaw...... oop's,,, cheek.  smile

Avatar
DanielB
Regulars

Members
April 27, 2013 - 8:41 pm
Member Since: May 4, 2012
Forum Posts: 2379
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I like the trick of using a tiny bit of superglue to help make sure the string doesn't unwrap and to stiffen the last little bit of the string.  It being stiff and straight would help with getting it to wind without slipping a bit when leaving it flush as shown.  I think I'll def watch this again the next time I change strings, anyway.

 

@Fiddlestix: Good to hear that those are working out well for you.  I usually tune my acoustic violin from pegs and I don't even have fine tuners on it, but I have to admit I've thought about the planetary pegs because they just seem so sensible.

 

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
April 28, 2013 - 5:08 am
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I did it with my D string, then I remember my pegs fit like crap anyways so it doesnt matter until I fix those. ha ha. Im not going with planetary pegs myself, too costly. And I am resolved to putting the fine tuners back on, good quality non buzzing ones. I really dont care about the perception or snobbery associated with them anymore. Ease of use is what I like.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
April 28, 2013 - 8:28 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 11717

StoneDog said
I am curious what others will say also. The FM vid shows to leave a tad of the string out. This vid stresses having the end of the string flush.The FM vid also does a double lock over on the string. This one did not. It would only make senses to have the pegs in position for easy tuning. This vid was really good to show how to do so. I often wonder how am I going to get the peg just right after the string is wound on it. This vid clears that up.

I always do this and I've spoken about it before on several videos (don't remember which). All I have said is that the proper angle makes it much easier to tune with the instrument up.

Simply wait until the new strings have settled. Then measure the amount of turn that you want to change and loosen the strings all the way down. I never cut any of the string off, rather just pull the string in or out and allow a loose end.

As far as the double lock over two loops on the string, one is just as good and maybe even better. Simply wind the string one time then cross over that wind to lock it.

 

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 28, 2013 - 8:34 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@pfish; there shouldn't be any snobbery associated with traditional fine tuner's, it's a matter of ease like you said. In fact, the first time I took my violin to the luthier I now go to, he suggested that I install a new tail piece with fine tuners for all four string's. I laughed and said that I had just changed out the tail piece with fine tuners that came on my Concert Master for a ebony tail piece, that I had heard you get a better sound with the traditional tunerless ebony tail piece. He shrugged his shoulder's and said, "it's a matter of opinion and that the average person can't tell the difference because it's so slight and it makes tuning so much easier, especially if you have ill-fitting pegs.

$ 100.00 to have planetary peg's put in was  rather cheap and well worth it to have a professional do it. The aluminum sleeve around the peg shaft is threaded, the E and A peg sleeve had left hand threads, the D and G have right hand threads so the tension of the string actually tightens the peg sleeve in the hole so there's no chance to work loose and spin in the hole.

I also bought a new chin rest and while he was putting it on he noticed the bottom plate was beginning to seperate from the rib below the end nut, so I left the violin with him to have it repaired and reglued, will pick it up Monday.

Talking about this in shout box the other night, DanielB said they sound nice to have but will it take longer to change string's as turning the peg one full turn will turn the shaft 1/5 turn, but if you pull out on the peg it disengage's the gear and allow's the peg to turn freely, when the string is taught again push the peg in to re-engage the gears for normal fine tuning.

Avatar
DanielB
Regulars

Members
April 28, 2013 - 12:29 pm
Member Since: May 4, 2012
Forum Posts: 2379
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Picklefish:  You know there's always folks that just can't seem to feel good about what they do unless they're looking down their nose at someone else.  Look at it this way.. If you're playing good enough that they have to go to counting how many fine tuners you have on your instrument to be able to find something wrong, you must be doing a fine job!  You're a threat to their fragile little ego.  LOL

Seriously, an in-tune string is an in-tune string.  Does how it gets that way matter?  Not really, so long as you can do it.  If you feel one way sounds better than the other or you feel one way is simpler than the other, then what you prefer is all that matters. 

Your instrument = Your rules.

 

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

Avatar
Picklefish
Merritt Island, Fla
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
April 28, 2013 - 3:33 pm
Member Since: June 25, 2012
Forum Posts: 1281
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I guess its because having only one fine tuner is associated with finer quality instruments.

@Daniel I agree with you about ease of tuning with illl fitting pegs.

Another thing is I typically play with my A at 440 hz but the piano at church is tuned to 441 hz. Changing the tuning would be so much easier with fine tuners.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

Avatar
ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 28, 2013 - 5:41 pm
Member Since: October 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 550
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlestix said

$ 100.00 to have planetary peg's put in was  rather cheap and well worth it to have a professional do it. The aluminum sleeve around the peg shaft is threaded, the E and A peg sleeve had left hand threads, the D and G have right hand threads so the tension of the string actually tightens the peg sleeve in the hole so there's no chance to work loose and spin in the hole.

but if you pull out on the peg it disengage's the gear and allow's the peg to turn freely, when the string is taught again push the peg in to re-engage the gears for normal fine tuning.

That is very reasonable to put in those pegs. I did not know about the gear can be disengaged for fast turning. Does it make the violin scroll heavier?

It sounds like you found the perfect solution.

Thank you for sharing, Fiddlestix.

thumbs-up

 

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 28, 2013 - 7:22 pm
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

ratvn said
That is very reasonable to put in those pegs. I did not know about the gear can be disengaged for fast turning. Does it make the violin scroll heavier?

It sounds like you found the perfect solution.

Thank you for sharing, Fiddlestix.

thumbs-up

 

 

There's not enough weight added to be measurable. The sleeve's that encase the peg shaft are aluminum. I doubt if it would even show up in total violin weight.

 

 

Avatar
ratvn
Kent, Washington USA
Honorary tenured advisor
Members

Regulars
April 28, 2013 - 8:02 pm
Member Since: October 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 550
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlestix said

There's not enough weight added to be measurable. The sleeve's that encase the peg shaft are aluminum. I doubt if it would even show up in total violin weight.

I read other user opinion about planetary gear pegs and some strongly discourage it, as they claimed it took a long time for initial tuning and made the violin top heavier which is not good for learning. Those obviously have not used it.
Thank you for clearing that up.
thumbs-up

 

 

 

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 29, 2013 - 3:39 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@ ratvn;  When I picked up my violin on Friday, the luthier wasn't quite finished installing the new pegs, so I waited and watched him finish with the E string tuner.

He would ream and fit, ream and fit until he got the hole the correct size. Screwing the aluminum sleeve into the hole, he wrapped a rubber band tightly around the sleeve to give him a better finger grip, then he would remove it, ream again and when the hole was the correct size he put a small dab of glue on the thread's. He used "Titebond" in a blue bottle. I think he said some luthier's use "Gorilla" glue, but he doesn't like it because it foam's out, is a mess to wipe off and stand's a chance of oozing into the gear's, not good. It took him about 30 minute's to install the last peg while I waited and watched.

I also read several review's, pro's and con's about planetary pegs.  Here is an article with several review's. Please read down to and include reading the very last review by,"Robert Cauer", regarding friction peg's, wood wearing on wood, humidity and temperature. This (I think) should clear up some question's re: planetary pegs.

The article is from, "Violinist.com".

 

http://www.violinist.com/discu.....fm?ID=8187

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 29, 2013 - 3:51 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Oh,,, one more thing. I think that it's possible to position these planetary peg's at the correct angle by pressing down on the string at the nut to keep it from unwinding, disengage the peg from the gear by pulling it out, turning the peg to the desired angle and pushing the peg back in to reengage it.

I'll report on that Monday evening when I pick it back up from the luthier after having the seam below the tail pin reglued. It was coming apart.

I asked the luthier if the open seam's affected the sound, he said if it's too bad it can, but the main concern is if the seam is open too long it can warp the rib in that area, making it that much more difficult to repair.

Avatar
Mad_Wed
Russia, Tatarstan rep. Kazan city
Members

Regulars
April 29, 2013 - 5:41 pm
Member Since: October 7, 2011
Forum Posts: 2849
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Fiddlestix said
... but I had planetary peg's installed on my violin, Friday and love them. ...

Ah! Thinking about them couple of weeks! Just installed a CF tailpiece with fine tuners and don't use it red_cursing. It's like sleeping in a clothes but without a blanket =/

@ And Fiddlestix, do You know what type of a peg reamer used your luthier for those pegs? It was 1:30 or 1:20? Straight blades or spiral?duncecapdunno I don't trust luthier that i know anymore, so if it will be ruined, i'd like to be the one, who did it.

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 30, 2013 - 3:23 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@ Naska;  I will call him Tuesday and ask which reamer he used for the job.

Avatar
ozmous
Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
April 30, 2013 - 3:59 am
Member Since: July 8, 2012
Forum Posts: 328
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I have seen his channel before while searching for Pag's techniques, he is the weirdest yet most informational luthier I've ever seen.

cheers! - ⁰ℨ

Avatar
Fiddlestix
Michigan, USA
King
Members

Regulars
April 30, 2013 - 6:14 am
Member Since: January 21, 2012
Forum Posts: 2637
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I think Naska should be, "Queen". 

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 231

Currently Online:
21 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today kit, wisco kid
Upcoming Mad_Wed, Andrew, Prudence, ButteryStuffs, makinnoise

Top Posters:

coolpinkone: 3767

Mad_Wed: 2849

Barry: 2661

Fiddlestix: 2637

Oliver: 2439

DanielB: 2379

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 3564

Moderators: 0

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 16

Forums: 56

Topics: 6448

Posts: 80415

Newest Members:

MACJR, bo, EKBanjo, charlieD, Folky fiddler, Morgenes42

Administrators: Fiddlerman: 11717, KindaScratchy: 1651