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Goodbye Fine Tuners?
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes) 
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Ferret
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December 1, 2012 - 6:56 pm
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How about these ?
http://www.knilling.com/access.....ection.htm

Goodbye fine tuners?
Or are they the devils work devil-violin

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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DanielB
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December 1, 2012 - 7:06 pm
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Probably the Devil's work.  But then, violin is supposed to be the Devil's instrument. LOL

I've thought about those.  It strikes me that it would be possible to just use one for the E string, and tune the est of the strings from the pegs, but they don't seem to sell them by singles.

"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman

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RosinedUp

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December 1, 2012 - 7:55 pm
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Pierre sells something like that:

http://fiddlershop.com/perfect.....=planetary

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Tyberius
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Of course I am only a beginner like so many here. It seems to me, with these planetary gear type pegs, you will fall into a trap of sorts. First off, you are required to ream out the peg hole. That might make it near impossible to put back regular pegs. once you screw it in place, it might not be so easy to take it out once it has had full string tension on it. It may bite into the wood regardless or not if you used any glue or adhesive material. No real big deal if you don't ever plan to go back with that instrument.

 

The problem really is when you do vibrato on the E string. If your planetary gear is aligned so the peg "wings" are facing your finger board instead of up in the air, your fingers or knuckles could hit the peg "wings" when you vibrato on the lower E. Unless you can align the whole mechanical peg prior to install, you might not be so happy with it.

I just don't know how hard its going to be to adjust these as your tuning sensitivity will be limited to the tooth spacing on the planetary gears ratchet. If the "gear" is really a friction type drum, then it might not be a problem at all. Perhaps someone who has used these can shed some light.

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

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RosinedUp

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My approach would be to find out all the brand names of fine-tuning pegs and do web searches for those names together and individually along with other words such as 'review', 'problem', etc.  By that method, I have found some detailed discussions of the pros and cons of the brands of this kind of peg.

I have considered using these on an old fiddle of mine that has misfit pegs and non-standard tapers in the peg holes.  One advantage over fitting the instrument with ordinary pegs is that with the fine-tuning pegs, I would only need a reamer, not a peg shaver.

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Picklefish
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December 2, 2012 - 1:54 pm
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I dumped all my fine tuners save the e string. I am having no trouble at all tuning from my regular ebony pegs. Sometimes things are sold to make money for the entrepreneur and not to really fill a need. imo. I love the idea of planetary geared pegs as a novelty not as a necessity.

 Shoulder rest and chin rest will be the next things to go once I am playing at a much better level. Maybe not permanently but I am curious about the experience. In a couple of years Im sure.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 2, 2012 - 3:43 pm
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What kind of strings are your using Robert? That is the main factor with not having fine tuners. Synthetic core allows enough flexibility to tune accurately at the pegs but steel core do not make it easy.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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Picklefish
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Dominants, they have the green thread on them. not sure of anything else.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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Ferret
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December 2, 2012 - 6:13 pm
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picklefish said

Dominants, they have the green thread on them. not sure of anything else.

Hi Robert

I use Dominants now. I like them more than the Pirastros that I had been using since starting to learn.

What is your thinking behind 'losing' all the bits that hang off your violin?

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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Picklefish
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im not understanding your question about "bits", nothing hangs off my violin that I am aware of.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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KindaScratchy
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December 2, 2012 - 7:59 pm
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Rob, I think Ferret's referring to your comment about eventually losing the shoulder and chin rests. IOW, the things that aren't permanently attached.

Of course, there are other things that aren't attached, like the bridge, tailpiece, sound post and pegs. Wouldn't want to lose those!

surprised

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

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Ferret
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December 2, 2012 - 8:10 pm
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picklefish said

im not understanding your question about "bits", nothing hangs off my violin that I am aware of.

OK, We. Start off with a violin with the basic needed 'bits' such as the strings, bridge, and pegs.

Then we add 'bits' such as tuners, chin rest , and shoulder rest. Things that you seem to be keen on getting rid of.

All I was asking was, why you want to get rid of the g fine tuner, the d fine tuner, the a fine tuner, the shoulder rest and the chin rest. Is it weight, sound, or purism?

Was just wondering smile

BTW ... I only phrased the question as I would have probably done to a friend here. No offence meant. I am not usually a 'verbose ' person

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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Ferret
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KindaScratchy said

Rob, I think Ferret's referring to your comment about eventually losing the shoulder and chin rests. IOW, the things that aren't permanently attached.

Of course, there are other things that aren't attached, like the bridge, tailpiece, sound post and pegs. Wouldn't want to lose those!

surprised

Hi

Thanks for understanding. Thought it may have 'me'. Many people don't realise that when you live 'Down Under' you think from right to left rather than the northern left to right. roflol

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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Fiddlestix
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The E string type fine tuner's that are add on's for the A,D,G string's will change the string afterlength. Afterlength is the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. As a rule of thumb it is roughly (yet not set in stone) 1/6 the distance between nut and bridge.

The Concert Master violin I have has the tailpiece with the built-in fine tuner's so the afterlength isn't affected.

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Picklefish
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December 2, 2012 - 10:50 pm
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no offense taken, just wanted to make sure what you were referring to. I took the fine tuners off cause all the more nicer expensive ones didnt have them so I wanted mine to look nicer. Im thinking about ditching the shoulder and chinrests after reading stuff and certain posts talking about it. Some purism, curiosity, challenge ya know, just to see. I had heard that it was possible to tune with just the pegs and thought why not.

"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.

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ratvn
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Fiddlestix said
The E string type fine tuner's that are add on's for the A,D,G string's will change the string afterlength. Afterlength is the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. As a rule of thumb it is roughly (yet not set in stone) 1/6 the distance between nut and bridge.

 

That is so right and when it's changed the sound/vibration/response would be affected as well. Not only that, it also adds (damping) weight to the bridge. There're reasons why tailgut, tailpiece and afterlength have certain lengths, and tailpiece is at certain weight. Everything is hanging from end to end. It's kinda analogous to suspension bridge vibration, just different for different effects/requirements.

The Concert Master violin I have has the tailpiece with the built-in fine tuner's so the afterlength isn't affected.

That is very nice to know and they do that to solve the issue of afterlength changing when adjusting with add on tuner. The very basic violin starter kit usually won't have that expensive built-in fine tuner.

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Ferret
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December 3, 2012 - 12:05 am
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Fiddlestix said

The E string type fine tuner's that are add on's for the A,D,G string's will change the string afterlength. Afterlength is the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. As a rule of thumb it is roughly (yet not set in stone) 1/6 the distance between nut and bridge.

The Concert Master violin I have has the tailpiece with the built-in fine tuner's so the afterlength isn't affected.

So it would seem that the geared pegs would eliminate the afterlength problem and still allow fine tuning, if you want that feature. As a learner I find the tuners very useful.

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

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RosinedUp

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December 3, 2012 - 12:44 am
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ratvn said 
The very basic violin starter kit usually won't have that expensive built-in fine tuner.

A tailpiece with built-in tuners is not usually expensive.  They are standard on many of the cheapest violins available.

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ratvn
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Ferret said 

So it would seem that the geared pegs would eliminate the afterlength problem and still allow fine tuning, if you want that feature. As a learner I find the tuners very useful.

Yes, Ferret, fine tuners are useful. The problem with geared pegs is that most likely it would needed to be installed by a luthier as peg holes are reamed to correct dimension of new pegs, expensive along with the price of the gear peg set.

If your violin have tailpiece with built in fine tuner then it good, otherwise you could get one of those and put it on. Around $15-30 depends on the brand. I use Witner and it is good, served the purpose.

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ratvn
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RosinedUp said

ratvn said 
The very basic violin starter kit usually won't have that expensive built-in fine tuner.

A tailpiece with built-in tuners is not usually expensive.  They are standard on many of the cheapest violins available.

Alright, my bad then. Sorry about that, RosinedUp. I haven't buy any of those lately. Do they come with quality ones or just so so ones.

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