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I am not talking about bow arm position by the way, I have just had some excellent advice from a fiddle player on you tube about that, she said for slow ones use the wrist a bit more and for fast ones have the arm right against the body, did say though that a lot of fiddle playing is developing your own style such as bow hold, this got me thinking about what others ideas maybe so plonked it here, I am still a rank beginner but a bit set in my ways with some things unfortunately now, I listen to any advice though such as fiddlermans great one about down bows, which isnt always obvious with irish type playing.
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@stringy I am not one who knows anything about technique, etc. I do notice if there is a change, most of the time.
When I listened to and watched this I noticed a big difference in the sound. It may be because it is different, but you have played others at this speed and this definitely has a much smoother sounding bow. I heard the notes better. You said you posted the first version of this on legacy or something, so I would not have heard, but compared the sound you are getting here and the other ones posted on the forum, this is very polished.
I was listening to the long strokes, the rhythm, etc, again, my terms may not be correct, but this was fabulous with the bowing, and I liked the tune.
You might get more useful feedback from someone who knows exactly what to listen and watch for, but from what I heard, and saw, there is a big difference. Hope this is helpful.
I am going to go back through your videos posted on the forum and see if it was posted on the forum earlier. If you did, could you tell me where?
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Thanks mouse, I posted this in the lament party, but, I originally posted it for my tik tok followers so maybe I tried a bit harder for them, I also was a bit more relaxed than normal because I was trying harder, odd I know but usually I play a lot more nervously for this forum probably because I know people on here play violin my playing goes out the window, I really want fiddlermans opinion on this one As well as others though, the fiddle by the way only cost 180 quid abitrusty has seen this one already I think
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Hand in hand with what I always told my students. That no matter how many lessons you take, you are your greatest teacher. You spend so much time playing by yourself, on your own, that you need to learn to analyze your every note, pressure, bow position, hand/arm/shoulder...... When something works, you keep it and improve on it.
I never criticize a bow hold position if a player is successful. A successful incorrect bow hold is way better than an unsuccessful correct hold. lol
"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."
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Fiddlerman thanks for the reply, of course what you say is correct, I do try to do all the things you said but maybe i should try a touch harder. My bow hold itself when most relaxed I don't use my little finger at all I find it locks my wrist but in saying that I am not playing classical thanks for taking a look and reminding me to think more about what i am doing good advice
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REVERB! ...everything sounds better with reverb. 😂
Seriously, I LOVE IT! I can tell you've been working on this & really shows! 🤗
I can't say much, except my personal philosophy when I think sad/mournful 🤔... one place where I want to focus on expression is in the bowing of those longest notes. The stroke can be exaggerated, lengthened by borrowing a tiny amount time either before or after. I can try to put some m...O...A...n into it! It's the best place I have time to consider everything possible from the beginning of that note's bow stroke, how it can change in the middle & how I want it to feel at the end.
I know I think about things too much, but where dance music needs to be LOUD & have a driving rhythm, a lament is like the opposite to me - most are slow airs (and YOU did not play this too loud, or driving 🥰). There's many times I don't want the full bow weight on a string. AND, if I'm sad, or longing/reminiscing, I'm probably not moving more than a slow walk - if too slow I might as well sit down, so I think of that in terms of tempo. Swells of emotion seem to go hand-in-hand with anything sad. There's a reason slow airs are played with rubato - we aren't marching or dancing anywhere. Sadness thru music.
I'm really glad you posted this here... I'm so grateful we can talk about bowing! NO one plays the same (NO one teaches the same) & I always learn something from this - plus 'I' have NO WHERE ELSE to discuss this candidly with folks that have different experiences & views, from different styles of playing!
I was feeling bad we were discussing bowing in your 'share' thread. I didn't want to take anything away from the fact you shared your playing of 'Get Up Early'. I did learn that tune (thank you), hope others will, too - and, btw... I have no idea why the EXACT SAME TUNE, only in Ador, is called 'The Rakes of Kildare'!!!
It's mind-blowing how many things we have to figure out for playing the fiddle!
I am learning, just like you!
ABitRusty mentioned (in the 'Get Up Early' thread) seeing great Fiddlers playing mostly in the upper half of the bow - and YES, I have seen them too. Thought about it a lot - we DO have to play in a way that's comfortable for each of us. Think there are many variables, including: what each of us wants to sound like, size of Fiddler, length of one's arm/position it feels relaxed, how responsive/loud a fiddle is, weight/balance point & responsiveness of a bow... maybe more.
IMHO, for rhythmic bowing used in ITM (also for dynamics & expressive, but natural articulation), there should be EQUAL (if not more) spotlight on practicing slurs & slurred string crossings.
I'm sure many folks don't have to think about the ergonomics of bowing, but I do (maybe more prone to aches & pains, fatigue) - it can make a big difference. String crossings at the tip takes more bow arm movement than nearer the frog... but probably only matters when playing fast.
Here's a somewhat exaggerated example.
Have you found playing seated to be any easier on your back?
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That feller is good when he just uses his wrist and fingers.
Thanks for having a look and the reply with your thoughts as well. I am going to start doing a lot with the leccy fiddle I think, after all, these guitar shredders would sound terrible without distortion and sustain, so why not lol.
I wouldnt mind doing a bit of busking with the leccy fiddle actually, people stop to listen, has a great sound outside, dont know if you remember the vid I posted of the lad and girl playing in porto, was really good, of course the equipment and violins they haad were much better than mine, but the sound outside is great, like a cathedral.
I appreciate all views on tunes and playing, thats one of the things that make this forum so good in my opinion, there is no malice.
Most vids I post on here I have only learned half an hour before, but I am going to stop doing that, and work on them a bit first, some of them I have read straight off, which isnt a good idea when my reading isnt great 😀
I split my practicing now with standing for a while then sitting for a while, truth is though my back is knackered, I recently had quite serious injury to it, this was only last year, and I carried on working not realising how bad it actually was, and my job involved heavy lifting, which really didnt help, on the mend now but will prob never get how it used to be, thanks for asking about that.
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Have you tried starting on the upbow?
Andrew
Verified human - the ignominy!
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Sure have, but I think it works better like this.
The original music I had didnt specify, so I tried it both ways, but I settled on this one in the end, I will have to have a look at my other one on the normal fiddle, I may have started that on the up
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I think we should enjoy exploring the tunes we like for as long as we want - there's no race, unless you have a gig lined up!
You & your Leccy are sounding REALLY good! I think you should definitely get outside with it!
I have been playing my blue 'Maezarine' completely acoustic since I bought it - never once plugged her in... kinda ashamed of that. Seems I just had reason to work on stuff I didn't need the amp & effects for, but lately it's been gettin' to me - like something that itches, I'm going to have to scratch it! 🤣
Did you catch my thread - Watch the Sound... have you seen this documentary?
If you haven't already seen this series, I know you would enjoy it! ...worth paying for a month of AppleTV+. Six great episodes, one was on 'distortion'. They talked about & showed how folks used to poke holes & slice up the amp speaker to get distortion (before distortion pedals were made), of course now we can just dial it in! What I found amazing was different ways distortion can be used - even in a very beautiful way!
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Thanks for the comment again Emily. Do you ever find, that when you do play the leccy, it affects your intonation on the normal fiddle, it usually throws mine out for some reason. If it wasnt for the neighbours I would have the leccy plugged in a lot more though. Even thought of buying a more expensive one.
Did you know it was dave davies of the kinks who first slashed his speaker cabinet, found that out when I watched the musical play about their lives, which by te way was excellent, it was in the west end in London and is actually coming back on there very shortly.
Going to check that series, my missus has apple tv but I dont know if it has plus
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@stringy -
Very cool about the Kinks - didn't know that!
Geez, I'll probably have to get back with you on electric intonation, since it's been a while. When I was playing my 5-string plugged in I remember it actually seemed I had to be more careful about my intonation, because I was hearing it under my ear AND thru the amp - TWICE as much in my face if I was off! 🤣
You probably don't have that double effect, since your Leccy is a true electric fiddle - mine are acoustic/electric. I did buy a cheap electric viola (?) can't even remember if that's right. It was when I thought I might have to stay in hospital, but since I didn't have to (yet), I never shaped the bridge to even try it out (something else I have lying around, NOW!😖).
When playing acoustically, I notice I hear my intonation better just by what bow I use. My Arcus is better for hearing intonation, but most of the time I enjoy playing with the Fiddlerman Noir! I'm never going to be able to tell if I'm only off a little, anyway - just accepted it.
You mentioned having trouble hearing out of one ear (sometime back)... it might be you are able to hear with your amp placement better - and miss it when you go back to acoustic.
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That thought of hearing better could be bang on, its my right ear which hasnt great hearing, too be honest my left might not be too good either lol but my right is definately not great, hadnt thought that it may be I am not hearing good when I play the acoustic, something to think about there. Makes sense.
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Very smooth and pleasant fiddle. you improved again on this one!
@elcbk said ."IMHO, for rhythmic bowing used in ITM (also for dynamics & expressive, but natural articulation), there should be EQUAL (if not more) spotlight on practicing slurs & slurred string crossings."
for sure... even more important that where one is bowing probably!. There is a pro fiddler who had a thing in one if his episodes on patreon where he suggested trying end to end bow strokes through a whole tune without changing direction. It is a very weird feeling. He said and paraphrasing.. try and make it sound like your using up and down bow strokes but play the bow end to end To show you that most people play by bow patteren. I dont want to mis quote or anything so leaving who it is.. and i wish i could link the section because it was so interesting and true. its almost instinct to change bow direction at certain points. what i got from that was.. KNOW that i am like that. practice using the whole bow so i can if needed.. dont lock in to a pattern.
that said.. i still find my comfortable spot from mid to tip on these tunes.. but i think i can work my way back to center if needed...🙂
sorry for the extra chat about it here stringy... just adding to the comment. youre post are sparking conversation i guess!
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Thanks for the comment abitrusty.
No prob about the chat, that sounds interesting about the feller you mention, do you mean full bow strokes all down bow or up bow on each note. So like I would play this tune for instance with all down bows but using the full bow, that seems extremely hard to do, have to give it a go.
I practice all my scales with full bows, sometimes I even speed them up and slow them down 😀 but only when I get too excited, seriously though I would like to see the link.
Its like guitar its instinctive when to play down strums and up strums, if you have the tune in your head.
Glad its creating a bit of conversation anyway.
One of the reasons I have been trying to play in the middle 1 inch of the bow is that I saw a fiddler on you tube cant remember who it was but he was teaching about a dozen fiddle players, and he said that the best sound for a fiddle player comes from the middle of the bow, so I have been trying to do it, not on tunes like this but jiggy ones, I tend to keep sliding up the bow though, takes some getting used to. Does make tunes like drowsy maggie easier though
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@stringy said..do you mean full bow strokes all down bow or up bow on each note. So like I would play this tune for instance with all down bows but using the full bow, that seems extremely hard to do, have to give it a go.
play through the tune as usual.. but only change bow direction when you reach the frog and then again when you reach the tip. play at tempo if possible.. i had to slow down what i was doing because it feels very wrong. 🤣
so every place you get the urge to change direction is where you naturally would be changing bow direction. now.. whether that is a good place to do it or not may be something the exercise can tell you if youre able to study on it.
another thing he said to gain was.. if youre able to put the dynamics and ornaments in..by doing it that way then youll be even more free with experssion when you go back to chaging bow direction.
idk..its a fun exercise to throw in. maybe not a major one but something to try.
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and by the way.. @stringy me bringing up that exercise from the patreon account has nothing at all to do with your playing here. im not tring to give any advice specific to you in any way. emily brought up something that jogged my memory and it seemed like as good as any place to put the response since it was in context.
felt the need to clarify that
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You dont have to clarify anything, I dont mind advice, if you have any give it, lol I certainly need it.
Dont explain anything you dont need to, to be honest anyway I would prefer someone saying that sounds crap, than saying it sounds good when they dont mean it.
I appreciate advice,even though I have never met you or anyone else on here I çount them as allies in a difficult journey 😀, I dont take things the wrong way, please dont think I do.
I may appear touchy at times, but believe me I am not and didnt take any kind of offence at your post, never even entered my head I was surprised when I read that.
I think you are a fine player as are quite a few on here, so i dont mind advice. Thats why I am here, as well as the crack.
please tell me if I am good or bad, but never lie about it.😀
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@stringy This was really excellent. Your sense of pulse on this is spot on—best I’ve heard of yours, I think. Your sound feels confident—no doubt because you’ve spent time with the tune. I guess I mean that there isn’t a sense that you’re chasing after the notes—they are just flowing out the way they’re meant to—the way you’re meaning them to. Well done 
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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Copy that.
And you're right, good technique applies to all genres of music.
I've seen amazing fiddlers playing, rock, old time, bluegrass, jazz, etc. and using both traditional classical techniques as well as non traditional techniques. The thing that they have in common is that they all work hard to achieve success. 🙂
"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."
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