Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.

Check out our 2023 Group Christmas Project HERE

AAA
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Base bar issue
Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 Topic Rating: 4 (7 votes) 
Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 27, 2012 - 7:09 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I have a circo 1900 German a hand made. Oolong which has no base bar.

The top plate is coming away from the side wall so I guess I could split it properly and fit a bass bar if needed, butdoo I really need one?

It has no nut so I cannot properly fit strings yet to see how it sounds.

Any advice?

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 27, 2012 - 7:11 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ps. An Oolong is. Violin when using an iPhone to post, lol

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
Almandin
Stockholm, Sweden

Honorary advisor
Members

Regulars
December 27, 2012 - 7:23 pm
Member Since: August 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 302
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TerryT said

Ps. An Oolong is. Violin when using an iPhone to post, lol

roflol Best typo ever!

As for the actual topic, I think you probably need a bass bar. But I reckon it'd be easier to add a nut and strings and try it out first, just for a fun comparison! (Unless that seam crack is too bad...)

~ Once you've ruled out the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true. ~

Avatar
KindaScratchy
Massachusetts
December 27, 2012 - 8:07 pm
Member Since: March 14, 2012
Forum Posts: 1760
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TerryT said
Ps. An Oolong is. Violin when using an iPhone to post, lol

Think I'll go have a cup of violin.

coffee1

 

When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,

I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 27, 2012 - 11:03 pm
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16429

You won't really be able to hear what it will sound like with adding a nut and stringing it up because the base-bar is vital for the sound. Just as vital for the sound as the sound-post.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Ferret
Byron Bay Australia
Members

Regulars
December 27, 2012 - 11:10 pm
Member Since: April 22, 2012
Forum Posts: 1575
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TerryT said
Ps. An Oolong is. Violin when using an iPhone to post, lol

roflol I soooo know what you mean

Seen it all. Done it all. Can't remember most of dunno ..... What was I saying???? facepalm

Avatar
Tyberius
Members

Regulars
December 28, 2012 - 12:55 am
Member Since: November 8, 2012
Forum Posts: 555
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Doesn't the bass bar transfer the G string (bass) vibrations to produce the deep rich sound? The sound post transfers the E string and treble, at least how I understand it. I would think without the bass bar, your lows would be dull and without life at best. I really don't know. A rubber band on a cigar box or oatmeal canister certainly gives bass but I seriously doubt if you'd get that deep powerful carrying energy in your sound waves from your lower tones without it.

 

I think you've discovered a permanent mute - rip out the bass bar and the sound post. lumpy-2134

 

On a side note, I do have to commend your iphones spell checker.

Its top grumjug!! (sp. notch  wink )

 

 

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 28, 2012 - 8:42 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16429

The bass bar is called bass bar because it is glued along the underside of the top directly beneath the G string side foot of the bridge but it has a balancing affect as well and affects the entire sound of the violin. It also strengthens the top for the pressure of the bridge. I have played on violins before having the bass bar changed and then after and promise you that their is a big difference in the whole sound afterwards.
Even though the sound-post is under the E string side of the bridge, moving it affects the sound on the G string as well as the top.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
December 28, 2012 - 9:28 am
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1973
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Pierre that is what I was jut going to say about the bass bar.

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 28, 2012 - 2:00 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Could it have been made without a bass bar fitted. I can understand a dislodged sound post coming out of the f hole, but a bass bar?

As the top is coming loose, I will lift it and see if there are any witness marks of a previous fitting, or maybe it's wedged in there somewhere 

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
December 28, 2012 - 6:02 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1973
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11sp_Permalink sp_Print
4

Where did it go?

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 28, 2012 - 6:08 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Exactly!

I'm guessing it snot there coz I can't see it through the f hole

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
Tyberius
Members

Regulars
December 28, 2012 - 11:12 pm
Member Since: November 8, 2012
Forum Posts: 555
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Is it possible the bass bar was just made wrong? Maybe the wrong length or completely placed wrong? I can see the edge of mine if I look sideways through the F hole.

 

Take pictures along this journey. I'm interested to see how you go about this "operation"

"I find your lack of Fiddle, disturbing" - Darth Vader

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
December 29, 2012 - 8:07 am
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1973
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14sp_Permalink sp_Print
3

Have you looked through the end pin hole?

 

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 29, 2012 - 9:48 am
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Good shout Kevin,

Shining a bright lightthrough the f hole and lookingthrough the end pin hole and there it is. Smaller profile than I expected, but there it is.

 

Now to glue the seam together.

 

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
ftufc
SoCal
Members

Regulars
December 29, 2012 - 3:22 pm
Member Since: February 24, 2012
Forum Posts: 727
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

So Terry, when you become proficient on your Oolong, will you post a video; can't wait to hear what it sounds like; sounds like very mystical instrument!

Btw, I've noticed a huge variation in the size and shape of bass bars, from country of origin, to violin style, to year made, to factory v. handmade.  Oddly, I've noticed the Germans do have sparser bars,,, never knew why.  Get yourself a $2 dental mirror buddy so you can see the inerds!

Ad Btw, the Italia shirt is GREAT; just washed and dried it so that it fits me (I'm no longer the manly XL that I once was, in the body at least, lol).  Thanks so much; I'm loving it; gonna wear it when I drive my Alpha around the hood!

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 29, 2012 - 3:38 pm
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ftufc said

So Terry, when you become proficient on your Oolong, will you post a video; can't wait to hear what it sounds like; sounds like very mystical instrument!

Btw, I've noticed a huge variation in the size and shape of bass bars, from country of origin, to violin style, to year made, to factory v. handmade.  Oddly, I've noticed the Germans do have sparser bars,,, never knew why.  Get yourself a $2 dental mirror buddy so you can see the inerds!

Ad Btw, the Italia shirt is GREAT; just washed and dried it so that it fits me (I'm no longer the manly XL that I once was, in the body at least, lol).  Thanks so much; I'm loving it; gonna wear it when I drive my Alpha around the hood!

Haha, good one Fred. Unfortunately I made a schoolboy error this afternoon after fitting a new nut and strings. Forgot to periodically check the bridge whilst adjusting the strings. Snapped the old bridge in 2 as it collapsed! Doh!moony-2173

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
Kevin M.
Nicholson, Pa
Members

Regulars
December 29, 2012 - 5:42 pm
Member Since: September 10, 2011
Forum Posts: 1973
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Need a bridge?  I'll send you one but it might take awhile to get there.

Avatar
TerryT
Coleshill, Warwickshire
Members

Regulars
December 30, 2012 - 6:06 am
Member Since: December 15, 2011
Forum Posts: 1731
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Many thanks for your kind offer Kevin, but as you say, it will take a while to get here, and I'm an impatient so and so.
I'll have to go to my local shop and grab a new one (and spares haha) and some new/old pegs and I want a few nut blanks so that I can experiment with heights etc.

Any hints on re-varnishing?
Should I bother? Or leave it as it is now?

I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....

Avatar
Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
December 30, 2012 - 8:21 am
Member Since: September 26, 2010
Forum Posts: 16429
20sp_Permalink sp_Print
4

That's cool Terry. You are also bitten by the luthier bug now. :)
Will we have the pleasure of meeting you in California?

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Jan Howard
Guest(s) 130
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today Michael Browder, EBurrell
Upcoming Sofia Leo, TKDennis, FiddleDetroit, CookiesViolin, JPferrman, Designer 88, LyleA, Stephen, Dorque, Trisha, Elaisa, Gordon Shumway, dougga, Russionleo, JohnG
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 7758
ABitRusty: 3914
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2690
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
Gordon Shumway: 2425
DanielB: 2379
Mark: 2149
damfino: 2113
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 31661
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 81
Topics: 10589
Posts: 134212
Newest Members:
Jan Howard, edwardcheng, Oscar Stern, bryanhanson, bittruster, fiddlecastro, jackdaniel, romanmills08, creativestringsinfo, rubble_b
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 16429, KindaScratchy: 1760, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3744, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 5305