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Fiddlestix said
C'mon people, I think this whole business of "Spectrum Analizers", is getting a bit too technical. People are downloading special software just to move a sound post. I think the business of learning to play the violin is what "Fiddlerman" website is all about, not relocating sound posts and such, that's the job for an experienced Luthier.
Folks are gonna be moving sound posts all around the inside of their instruments and then losing them inside the violin, maybe they can retrieve them, maybe they can't and end up taking them to a Luthier to be reset.
The business at hand here in this site is to learn to play, Learn to play Twinkle, Twinkle , and a few other songs proficiently, then worry about the quality of sound.
OK, I agree, but this IS the thread on "MAKING A NEW SOUND POST" and I suspect a beginner will only read and not mess with a violin already setup and working properly. Don't you think so?
"people" are not downloading special software just to move their post. If anything, it's a curiosity thing and even if they did download special software, who cares...especially if it helped to make their 'new' post sound better than the old one or at least as good.
Losing a soundpost inside is not a catastrophe, turn the violin upside down and roll it around until the post is laying right next to the f hole and use a pencil or something small and tip it up and let it fall out. Really....I did it like 3 times since I've made my latest post, and I did it twice before on the original one. It really aint no big deal, maybe for you it would be but a man's got to know his limitations and I feel completely comfortable in moving my soundpost and changing strings and tuning it as well. If someone else has issues or is scared to mess with it, that's good, they found their limits and as such can either choose to let someone else do the work and pay them for it or learn. The choice is entirely up to them.
The business at hand huh? Well, in general I have to agree, the name and logo pretty much say it all huh... but for some, like Cat who have MADE their own from scratch and seem to have no issue with using their hands, this is a necessary subject to be presented and everyones opinion is welcome, even yours and mine.
To stop these types of posts and threads (and I'm not saying you implied that at all. don't have a fit.) would be to censor the educational aspect of violin manufacturing. Some people are not interested in that and probably won't be bothered reading past the first post, others on the other hand will no doubt want to learn more and education is not the issue, freedom to learn is.
"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein
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Wow Dennis... Great info for sure. Don't mind Oliver, he's technical like you but he sounds a little too skeptical some times. 
I do travel with guitars and I can fix up a couple bumps from the road and I think about, "what if I knock down the sound post in my fiddle?" Ya gotta know your own instrument!
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I hear ya Scott...
I'd love to sit down with Mr. Oliver... and have a cold beer and discus life.
I think he's a wealth of information and I value his 'skeptical' opinions. That's what we need in this world, more people asking... why?
Yes you should at least know how to re-set it with the min of tools. What if's happen all the time, I think being prepared is a very desirable quality. 
"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein
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For damn sure! I love Oliver's views and your's too.
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Having said all that technical mumbo jumbo, does your instrument have a bit of dental floss inside it forevermore!
oops, I forgot where the joke forum is again, lol.
in my opinion these diverse subject posts are great, some of us need to know a bit of why, as well as how,
I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....
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Actually NO it does not have any string left on the post or inside at all. If you throw a clover hitch of the little bugger of a post, you can just tug and gently pull on one end and it slides right off without moving the post after you have all the strings pulled up tight.
There's something like 40+ pounds of force on that thing after all the strings are tensioned so it's easy to slide the "knot" un-done if you work at it slowly. Putting overhand knots, etc. on ot doesn't come off as easy, and this way the floss is so slick it slides easily.
"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein
@cdenny
I have no complaint if your good results come about in an empirical fashion. Of course, it would be easier for me to copy your good ideas if they were quantified 
For those sissies afraid of a sound post, there is not any large reputable forum that does not feature a technical, luthier's, topic section.
Oh ..... curious research ........ the more a sound post is displaced from normal position, the more likely the violin will revert to the original sound because the added stress reshapes the body.
@MGM "skeptical" ..... this is entirely the result of my personal luthier "wars". The only one I finally came to trust was one who said, "I really don't know what to do with this violin."
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Oliver said
@cdenny
I have no complaint if your good results come about in an empirical fashion. Of course, it would be easier for me to copy your good ideas if they were quantified
Oh ..... curious research ........ the more a sound post is displaced from normal position, the more likely the violin will revert to the original sound because the added stress reshapes the body.
Empirical fashion, not likely... I think it was a bit of orderly randomness and luck to start with and luck of the Irish seasoned with a dash of perseverance which led to the next move, and the next move, and the next move, and the next move, and finally... success. I understand moving the post outward enhances the higher pitched strings, moving it further inward toward the bar enhances the lower tones so a happy medium in between is easy to find after lots of tests.
I wish I had access to a lab and a way to hold the violin and mechanically play the same pressure and speed just to see what kind of results could be obtained for future reference in the BIG book of violin stuff.
I've heard of too much pressure (e.g. a post too long with tight high tension strings) actually punching a hole (well, almost... but certainly making a bump in the body) from the outward forces against the inside of the body of the violin. You'd think someone with that issue would've seen the tell tale signs long before it was damage that needed significant repair time.
"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein
To think I didn't even know a sound post existed until a couple months ago when I learned of it on this website. Mine looks like it is in place, and now I am ever so careful not to jar my violin so it stays that way! Fascinating discussion here.
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cdennyb said
I've heard of too much pressure (e.g. a post too long with tight high tension strings) actually punching a hole (well, almost... but certainly making a bump in the body) from the outward forces against the inside of the body of the violin. You'd think someone with that issue would've seen the tell tale signs long before it was damage that needed significant repair time.
And this is precisely why everyone should have a healthy sense of curiosity about the things we spend so much time with. You wouldn't be driving a car around on back country roads if you didn't know how to change a tire, right? Same thing. Some of us are extra curious and want to know how to build a replacement for a blown tire 
Mary in Springfield, Oregon http://www.thefiddleandbanjopr.....dpress.com
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Terry said
Having said all that technical mumbo jumbo, does your instrument have a bit of dental floss inside it forevermore!
Mine has a dusty old string attached to the soundpost, and with all the other problems I have had, it can just stay there! At this point, I am not gonna mess with what ain't broke!
I just know, that one of these days, I will do the unexpected and mess with the sound post in one of my violins...and will screw it up, or knock it over, and will spend a few nights messing with it, until I get it on the right spot...but for now, I am trying very hard to not mess with these as these seem to be spot on...but I agree that one must know his/her instrument, not just know how to play it, but how to caress it, how to service it, how to keep in tune, how to make it sing, how to keep it in optimal condition, you get the point. I understand there are experienced luthiers out there, but they too started somewhere, so I would say anyone can pick up the craft...
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Dee Major said
To think I didn't even know a sound post existed until a couple months ago when I learned of it on this website. Mine looks like it is in place, and now I am ever so careful not to jar my violin so it stays that way! Fascinating discussion here.
Keep in mind Dee, that the post will never just fall out of position when the strings are on there and tensioned up. Even if they are slacked off a turn or two, the tension on the bridge will keep the post locked in place. If you can't get your bridge out from under the strings, it's good. If you were to change the bridge for some reason, you'd want to lay the violin on a big fluffy bath towel folded up a few times so it didn't get jarred loose in that situation...and change out the bridge as gently and quickly as you could, getting the strings back in tension so you could sigh a big sigh of relief. LOL
I have specifically cut the length of my post short enough so that if all the tension is gone, (all strings off) then it can and will fall over or dislodge if bumped. In MY situation, the sound has been enhanced, it's just the nature of my beast I guess. Every instrument is individual in that respect.
I agree 100%, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... and that applies to your instrument. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared for the worst case scenario though...power is knowledge.
Isn't it amazing how much you can learn on the net?
"If you practice with your hands you must practice all day. Practice with your mind and you can accomplish the same amount in minutes." Nathan Milstein
cdennyb said
Keep in mind Dee, that the post will never just fall out of position when the strings are on there and tensioned up. Even if they are slacked off a turn or two, the tension on the bridge will keep the post locked in place. If you can't get your bridge out from under the strings, it's good. If you were to change the bridge for some reason, you'd want to lay the violin on a big fluffy bath towel folded up a few times so it didn't get jarred loose in that situation...and change out the bridge as gently and quickly as you could, getting the strings back in tension so you could sigh a big sigh of relief. LOL
___________
Thank you, cdennyb, for the helpful tips on potential soundpost and bridge issues in this post and in many others. Even I would be willing to try some things before considering a trip to the nearest available luthier.
Hi I hope to resurrect this topic, or at least reply even given the relative age of the post. This has been a serious issue of deep consternation for me lately as this past week I have decided that resetting a sound post can't be "that hard" although yes, there have been many generations of luthiers that have made careers and supported families based on thier ability to set a sound post and other skills.
After reading this series of posts, I with great delight and obsession, made a home made violin post setter using the ideas formulated here. There are of course many commercial violin post setters ranging in price greatly. The cheapest being a "sound post setter", but I have one of these and have found great frustration in learning and practicing the skills. The basic concept is to have something that will hold the post steady and with enough force to get it into position and then set it by friction between the top and bottom plates.
So being of no modest means but yet of tightwadian origins, and not having a plastic drinking straw, I have composed a tubular post setter made out of a bic pen.
One would remove the outer casing of the pen, remove the writing tip as so often happens in the wash. Put plenty of soap in the sink first. Then wash out the ink from the ink reservior, blowing with air and using a peice of wooden-core incense or other handy sliver of wood.
Once cleaned and having ink all over your hands, insert a peice of floss or thread in one end, suck the thread through the one end, re-deposit the same end back through the other direction. Now you have a loop as previously described on one end and two loose ends coming out the other end.
Snug your sound post to the thread loop and hold tightly... should be rigid enough to move around a little inside the violin. the flexibility of the innards of the pen will allow you to get the sound post in just the right position. Let go of one end of the string and remove the implement.
You will of course have made sure all the ink is gone from the tube before starting the procedure or your multi-thousand dollar fiddle will have stained with ink.
So there you have it... a poor man's violin sound post setter. Of course if you could get a piece of [new] copper brake line from the garage or a flexible straw, skip the initial steps. And don't place your mouth near anything that is not food.
Thank you to all, I felt compelled to write this reply in immense gratitude to the Fiddlerman community for such a great idea.
Mt. Fiddler.
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Nice little tool, Mt. Fiddler! Do you feel the flexible tubing works well, or might it be better if it was something like thin metal tubing that could be shaped a bit for getting into the right position through the f-fole?
I recently ordered one of the usual cheap versions of the funny little tool that looks sorta like a piece of wire with a dubious looking flower sort of shape on one end that seems to be a standard soundpost setting tool. But I must admit that I have some doubts over such an item working well.
I haven't had to re-set any soundposts yet, but I figure I will sooner or later. No place in town these days that I'd trust to work on a musical instrument at all, much less violins. With changing tailpieces and wanting to make at least a backup bridge, I figure it's just luck so far that I haven't knocked the dang thing loose.
While I'm not eager to mess with something that sounds as persnickety as the soundpost, I consider all standard adjustments to be part of "know your instrument". So I'll want to learn it sooner or later.
But anyway, good little tool/gadget, and good thinking, Mt. Fiddler!
"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman
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As Oliver indicates, people don't need to be sissies about soundposts, at least not on an instrument that costs under $500 or so. I set a soundpost before I'd even played a violin. I had to do a setup on my inherited fiddle before I could play it!
What Cat says about patience is key. Tell yourself you might have to set the soundpost several times before you get it right. If it falls, it falls, and you'll just set it up again. It's not that hard. So take your time and get some skill with the basic tasks such as retrieving the post from inside after it has fallen.
Notice what Kevin says early in the thread:
"To get the angle is much simpler. People try to measure the angle from inside but the angle from the outside is the same so take your soundpost and cut it a little long then put it on top in the position you want and sand it until the angle is correct and the post is straight up. Use a pencil and mark the post for the top and which side faces the side of the violin. Turn the post over and do the same on the back keeping the post facing in the same dirrection and sand the angle until it is both correct and the post is the correct length. "
The thread is old and I don't think I've read it before. But on my own I came up with the same way as Kevin of adjusting the angles at the ends. Stand the post up on the outside! GMTA
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One can make a simple kind of sound post setting tool easily. Not that there is anything wrong with the way Mt. Fiddler has made his. In fact his way has some advantages, but here is another way.
Take a section of coat hanger wire and sharpen the end. Don't sharpen it to a point, like an ice pick. Make the end blade-like, like a tiny axe head. First file it down, then hone it with a sharpening stone. The point should be slim so that the sound post may be stabbed with it in a way that holds but does not split the sound post.
The flexibility comes in handy but I think an L shaped metal tube would be better. I was too lazy to go out and get a peice from the hardware/auto store. trying and trying. Very alluring to think there is a way to get a really great sound . I've not been practiing as much because I hate the sound with the soundpost leaning as it is.
Thanks for the compliments...
Mark
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