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Had to dig into this more since I've been focusing on odd time signatures & their rhythms.
Melody & harmony wouldn't be complete without the 'beats'!
When I started playing in my own little melody world (known as the violin), I didn't even know what a 'high hat' was, let alone what to do with it! I have since played against beat tracks I've found, fooled around with polymeter and polyrhythm, but never actually made any beats of my own.
Not exactly seeing eye-to-eye with this video when talking about 6/8 (guess they don't think there's any jigs in EM) - but still found this extremely helpful for understanding 'why' & 'where' I might want to use one type of drum for a certain beat.
I did NOT know that certain beats can help define PHRASING! 🤗
Fellow Fiddlers - if you're working with DAW, are you using stock beats, or making your own?
Have you done any experimenting with beats?
I have my midi keyboard (with beat pads) & my Orba 3 I play/loop beats on... but still haven't gotten to where I want to arrange/record in DAW, yet.
FOUND Ableton has a virtual/interactive page that lets me get comfortable creating a loop of beats (like prep for DAW), opens right in the browser - no fuss, perfect visualization for me to start with.
Make Beats | Learning Music
...the rhythm I want right now!
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Inching my way toward creating some 'beats' and backing.
I really need to go back over the video in the OP, but in the meantime... been having a little fun with Paul Forsythe's 'Reel Choon Maker' (recently mentioned in my EV Journey blog). The ABC's for just the melody can be read as standard notation in other software (I chose Michael Eskin's ABC Transcription Tools).
I was hoping it would generate ABC's for the bass notes, too - but don't think it's possible with this, or I can't figure out how.
Anyway, probably no one's cup of tea here, but was trying for something challenging to improvise over on the fiddle (working on that) - mainly seeing what I could annoy Kevin with today. 😏
'Early Monday'
'Monday Afnoon'
I like the last one, but was surprised when I generated ABC's. Couldn't get 'whole' rests to show up in the 2 bars I only have bass notes, so it was like they just went AWOL (2nd part was short 2 bars in ABC Tools notation/playback). Rests DID show up in measures having at least 1 note in it - and I'm sure I can find how to add this rest in some ABC instruction (later, but I was avoiding learning ABC).
This app wasn't meant to be a serious composing tool, but I might transcribe this last tune. Took some screen shots so I wouldn't lose any info. Having enough fun... I may do some more - maybe even a real reel!
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thats so cool! i like the last one more too.. but both are pretty catchy. im glad you posted them. not sure how to export or save an audio from it but at least youve captured on youtube.
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@elcbk Those are neat! I like both of them—I think the 2nd one could be in the intro of a suspense film (been watching a lot of older movies lately).
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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@ABitRusty , @SharonC -
Thank you both!
...I had a good day for a little mischief.
I appreciate this simple little Reel Choon Maker for helping me to get my feet wet, but now I see I'd like to be able to set other parameters and have a better way to save what I do. Even if my intent is temporary, inevitably find I want to develop some ideas further. Once I close the page of the app, much info is lost... the ABC's generated for 'Monday Afnoon' were useless, the ABC's for 'Early Monday' a little more helpful - since it had no bassline, but still only part of the actual info. The ABC's did NOT capture the % of swing from the app, but that was easy enough to add into 'Michael Eskin's ABC Tools'. ...just wish I found a way to insert ABC's back into the Choon maker!
LOVED (in the Choon app) that the bass automatically had enough sustain, so a bass note sounded until the next one was played, even a whole measure... like a drone effect!
Wish I could set dynamics to change! If I want percussion to change during playback, have to do it manually (and can only chose patterns using 2 drum types), but beggars can't be choosers! Glad drums were simple, but sounds too low to be a kick & snare (to me). Toms? ...any help identifying them in the app would be greatly appreciated!
I'm a bit intimidated, but think it's time I try to notate a melody, bassline & the percussion ALL in my PreSonus Notion Mobile app. I have been looking at videos on notating percussion... we'll see.
Films & TV series music I grew up with must've had some influence on me. There certainly is a huge difference, compared to today - hard to believe I remember stuff from the 60's! ...much less ambient back then, a little more jazz influence I think.
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Next experiment... since I was able to save the ABC's for the melody line of 'Early Monday', took a few minutes to use the 'midi instruments exploration' in Eskin's ABC Tools. The ONLY thing I ended up adjusting (while trying each one out) was swing & tempo.
It was interesting to find the very slow tempo benefited from quite a bit of extra swing - without it, just completely died. I did find some of the instrument choices polyphonic (most weren't, and some where strictly effects) - the differences are very interesting. SAVED 4 of them I liked. 'Timpani', 'Marching Drums' (feels like percussion changes the roll of the melody?), 'Blown Bottle' may end up a favorite for creepy Halloween, and the 'Cajun Accordion' gave me some great harmony that became VERY menacing-sounding slowed down!
Want to take a few days (not too long) just to see how I enjoy playing over the mp.3's (Media Player) on the fiddle, or if I want to pursue this further/beyond this point - thought about using them in a different way. Some stuff was already forming in my head when I listened to the surprising results... walked away feelin' pretty good!
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I liked the bottle one right below the cajun accordian. cant decide if favorite was the drums below the bottle one or the last track. now the last track reminded me of something that would be playing on a walking dead episode. interesting sounding track. liked it.
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Very interesting, you created a couple of cool lines
Mark
Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.
Albert Sammons
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@Mark -
Thanks, Mark! Really appreciated you listened!
I'm probably going down another rabbit hole for a bit. 🫤😄
@ABitRusty -
Been a long time since I watched any of the Walking Dead, never got into it as much as Kevin did... I'll have to take a look back.
The 'Blown Bottle' sounds to me like it has some creepy toy piano-key attack in it!
I guess I need to learn ABC's - The Cajun Accordion track desperately needed some tempo relief & dynamics. The last midi was 'Timpani'... that one & 'Marching Drums' (both little slower than original) have me seriously mulling over the possibility of simplifying 'melodic beats' for a combination beat pattern/counter melody.
ALL this (along with 'Monday Afnoon' video) made me realize I definitely want a measure, or 2, where neither bass nor treble line sounds - just a drum fill (now considering a melodic drum fill)... don't know if I still need more absolute silence thrown in, too (but haven't started on that tune yet).
Will be a challenge to keep from getting everything too messy, but I'm starting on a mission to make sure have more breathing room in music... from now on.
I don't want to lose sight of all the percussive effects possible from other instruments that can be used in place of, or along side, drums. Found some of the Eskin midi instruments with limited range would only play some/a few of my notes & all else left silent (might be application for that later) - can make a pattern.
@SharonC -
Your comment about 'suspense film' & showing me the stock film clips you put to my tune was very inspiring! My head's been full of silent film possibilities and 60's TV series themes since then!!!
Feels like every time I turn around I discover more about the influence of music in my life & how it helps connect memories!
...it's late & my brain is still Reelin'!!!
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Can't believe this is making me learn ABC notation!
Just want to share a few thought before getting back to making beats...
This topic has also made me think about how the functions of the 3 main elements of music (melody, harmony & rhythm) can be interchanged, or combined. Do I want them on different lines/voicings, or all on one(?) ...just a place to start asking myself questions.
Still think a solo violinist/fiddler has enough ways to attack/articulate notes, possible bowing patterns for rhythmic self-support, as well as double stops & droning for harmony - to stand alone.
...but violin really lacks enough low end to provide any feeling of a bassline - probably why I prefer Viola & Cello.
Trying out the midi instrument options on Michael Eskin's Tools was a game changer, because it showed me some easy ways I could have different tones automatically assigned to different pitch 'ranges' - like different voicings, but ALL on one line! Assigning different instruments/tones/sounds to individual notes is nothing new with midi, and I think can provide great contrast/interest along with support for the melody & rhythm.
I've recently decided I could be quite happy with ANYTHING used for accompaniment. ...as long as it supports/enhances the MOVEMENT of the music.
I do prefer a multipurpose instrument (my favorite would be cello)... but a melodic beat of drums/percussion can also provide some harmony & can be equally satisfying, doesn't have to feel like a metronome.
Movement/Drive - scaling of 'intensity'.
I'm still getting used to thinking about ALL the ways movement can be manipulated in music. There's types of Melodic, Harmonic and Rhythmic movement - also dynamic movement, tempo movement (rubato), and even vibrato can add an element of movement. Choosing what & where to use them is pretty exciting!
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I was going to wait until I could do something more with my 'Monday Afnoon' (at least some change in dynamics), but not finding an easy way to save anything with the app - looks like it could be a while.
...so, in the mean time, wanted to share what SharonC generously made for me out of it! The music is only what I made with the 'Reel Choon Maker' app - doesn't have me playing along on the fiddle.
Thanks again, Sharon - for showing me new possibilities!
Besides what I've previously shared here, made an additional bassline & beat last week, but decided I want to get comfortable enough to just use my midi keyboard drum pad & fiddle - instead of playing along with this app.
Playing fiddle along with the 'Early Monday' track (4th one in post #6, the one that just sounds like drums) has been quite enjoyable, but still experimenting.
I've recently been spending time checking out syncopated 6/8 time - unfortunately, this app is only meant for 4/4 time... I'm going to have to evolve!
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I'm in BIG trouble now - enticed with MORE music-making CANDY!
Just found out Paul upgraded his app (Reel Choon Maker)!
...for JIGS, plus soooo much more!
https://thesession.org/discussions/50212
Lions & Tigers and Bears, OH MY!
Looks like I'm off the Music Land of Oz, again! 🤭
JUST saw Michael Eskin's ABC Transcription Tools has also been updated so the metronome can be set differently & sound like different percussion instruments! Sounds like we can have some simple beats there, now!
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When I first saw the HUGE list of JSON text for my 1st tune in the 'Reel Choon Maker' app, I thought I screwed something up! 😦 AND, I had no idea what to do with it, or how to save it. Was afraid I'd have to learn about it like the ABC notation!!! 😵💫
I knew JSON was a text file, but didn't know what to do with it/how it's saved (I can save in Notepad) - or how well it saves all the data in the 'Reel Choon Maker' app. Seems it saves everything, but also seems I'm limited to 'saving' or 'putting it back in the 'Choon Maker'.
Michael Eskin is getting involved to possible find a way to get more than just the melody ABC's over into his 'Tools' app - which would be absolutely fabulous!
(*edit) Looks like Michael has already made an improvement I'll have to check out (https://thesession.org/discussions/50212)!
I played around a little with the new Jig setting & drum patterns to mess with syncopation in 6/8 time. I either need to remove some notes from the bassline, or adjust the melody I came up with - maybe both... too tired to do anything more.
Anyway, I think in the end, 'Reel Choon Maker' will continue to be a lot of fun & Michael's ABC Tools may surprise everyone (become even more amazing). I should even be able to actually create some usable 'beats' for my tunes - between the two of these.
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This IS exciting!
Got busy, but need to settle down & make time, see if I can get 'Monday Afnoon' into the NEW CUSTOM CHOON MAKER app & have more FUN with it!
Current link to use.
https://michaeleskin.com/tools.....maker.html
DEMO video.
...have to dig out my saved screen shots, re-input all the notes/settings & see just what I can do now. One big problem I had was I could NOT get the long rests recognized - this is supposedly fixed. Also couldn't save any of the bassline or drums before. I'm still afraid my bassline will show up as chords, when it was really more a counter-melody... we'll see!
ALL pretty ingenious (to me)!
There still may be changes/modifications. Updates & discussion in both the Reel Choon Maker HTML app - Session Thread AND Reel/Jig Choon Maker JSON to ABC Transcription Tools transcoding utility - Session Thread.
...hope folks get interested in keeping up with this & try to create some backing/beats for your fiddle tunes this way (or just play with it)!
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Geez, I really did start out this thread intending to make unique beat tracts to record my previously-learned fiddle tunes with.
Did NOT expect it to turn into improvisation and the basis for creating new tunes!😳
Been having a retro-day of Led Zeppelin listening/analysis/riff playing today - once again, some outstanding drums (John Bonham) really stand out.
...so, got to thinking, does anyone else think about starting an arrangement or composition in this 'backwards manner' - by first creating a beat track?
I did find a thread at DRUMMERWORLD - some big names thrown out, like Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Pete Yorn (22 songs used in film & TV shows) that do this. Tool was mentioned, which was interesting. When I listened to series of their 'top' songs, many did seem to originate from a base of melodic drum, or guitar, beat. I do still believe a guitar (or any instrument) riff can be used to substitute for drum (but that's MY opinion).
A thread at The Gear Page talks about using apps like EZ Drummer, Superior Drummer, and Groove Monkey loops - all felt they had very favorable results, but they didn't create 'new' beats.
Using Drum Loops to Write Awesome Songs (Songwriting Planet)
About using pre-existing drum tracks/loops to start experimenting... I do have the 'Loops' app on my phone, but just haven't used it in ages - keep finding cooler ones on YT.
I do enjoy experimenting with the drum pads on my midi keyboard, but percussive techniques on the fiddle is fun, too - want to do MORE!
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yup.. talked about using a drum or beat track to improvise to..along with a drone or tonic tone or chord. really any chord would work and that could be used as a tonic key or mode. im sure youve alrwady explored that but for others its a simple way to just kinda let loose and see what comes out 🙂
e.g. but many more like it. could even make own by recording a long double stop and looping to a youtube drum track!!
this is an example of one with a premade chord progression and groove.
heres one with a drone tone and beat
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@ABitRusty -
Thank you!
Appreciate you keep everything grounded! 🤗
...sorry, still stuck down my rabbit hole & compelled to poke a hole in the box.
Think my next experiment will be DRUMLESS BEATS - going to start with the notation in this video (hopefully tomorrow) & replace the drum playback sounds with something else... maybe sounds from my fiddle!
DRUMLESS BEATS are obviously not new, played a role in the Hip-Hop evolution. ...hey, if I can replace drums with other sounds, I can also replace nasty lyrics with a MELODY!
Irish Jig Drum Score Lesson (Talent Progression).
REALLY INSPIRED BY THIS VIDEO (LANDR) 😆 even though quite a bit above me at the moment - still got some great ideas!
Beat Challlenge: Making a Beat With NO DRUMS (in under 10 minutes)!??
I watched some tutorials on making Drumless Beats, but this seemed important for ANY kind of beat-making - good tips!
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Just thought I'd throw this out there, in case someone isn't having the beautiful weather I'm enjoying looking at (humidity is still high here) - maybe bored. 😑
Surprised myself - really liked the 'Hard Boom Violin Beat' (prev post video) to improv over. I didn't try to play Hip-Hop... ended up with something sounding more like a Russian folk tune! 😆 ...yeah, no - didn't record anything yet (use your imagination).
For some reason it was easier for me to get started after I increased the speed of the video up to 1.4, figured out what key/modes I wanted to use - improv'd some there, then more with the recording at normal speed. ...kinda weird for me to have to slow down (so a good thing).
I don't really feel anything 'major' about the track (but YOU might). I ended up liking 2 sharps (F#, C#), so key of D! B and F# seemed could be tonal centers, so Bmin or F#phygian mode to start. Plenty of room to dip into the feeling of the other modes. Maybe a good time to mention the Modal Circle of Fifths Chart again - because easy to switch over into neighboring keys for Bphrygian (Cnatural) or F#min (G#), etc...
Hope you have as much fun as I've been having with it!
...seriously, GO PLAY OUTSIDE - IT'S SUMMER!
