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@ABitRusty -
YES!
I definitely like the 'listen first, get the feeling - then express what you feel' approach
- especially for Folk Music!
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Katie M
Green sleeves is Sounding good.
Always looking to make a tune sound how you gear it is a Never ending journey, your well on your way.
Mark
Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.
Albert Sammons
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Katie M said
Thank you abitrusty and stringy. The funny thing is I was trying to use more bow!!
@Katie L Your Greensleeves is sounding good!
It’s amazing how long the bow really is 
It’s not unusual for me to work out the left hand stuff first, and then focus on my bow. Over time, my overall bowing has improved, but I still find that when I’m so focused on my left hand learning something, my bow strokes get smaller and smaller--once I get my left hand good, I then focus on my bow, which usually translates into longer, smoother strokes.
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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Keep up the great work @Katie
"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."
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Thanks Mark Sharon and Fiddlerman ! Feeling motivated now! You made me go and practice this eve. Yes Sharon the bow seems to have got a lot longer now i’m trying to get to the tip again ! I find I like practicing scales really fast though as it helps stop me pressing to hard on the strings. But I’m doing long bows as you suggested stringy.
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This doesn’t sound great at all but I’m posting it because I have finally managed to do a video in decent quality with both of my arms in . Thanks for watching I know it’s hard on the ears …
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Also forgot to say please let me know where I’m going wrong …also had my covid jab so my arm was killing . 👍
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Your right hand little finger is admirably constant, but it's literally on top of the bow, which means you are holding the hairs flat against the string. Try to rotate the bow so that the hairs are facing you and only their outside edge is on the string. That means your little finger should be on the bow surface towards you next to the top surface but not right on it. Since your little finger is so good at staying in place, it shouldn't be difficult for you to change your bow hold. Not that I'm promising it will make much difference. And try to bow half way between the bridge and the fingerboard.
Andrew
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Ok so am I rotating the bow clockwise or anti clockwise as I look up it?
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@Katie L -
Excellent Camera position!
🤔... what do YOU notice about your violin & bow - as YOU watch & listen to this?
(this is not a test 🤣)
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Katie M said
Ok so am I rotating the bow clockwise or anti clockwise as I look up it?
Looking from the frog towards the tip it's clockwise. If your bow is octagonal, rotate it by 1/8 turn and put your pinky on the flat that's then vertically uppermost. From that bow position you'll be able to rotate it more or less, depending on needs such as volume and delicacy.
Andrew
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Ok I will try this ! Thanks. Why can I not have a flat bow? And is it necessary to tilt at the frog or all the time ? Emily thanks for watching . Well it’s not straight but that’s about all I can tell. And I need to stick my wrist out at the tip but that’s all I can really tell. Feel like I don’t know what I’m doing !! Is tilting not a bit advanced for me ?
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Katie M said
Ok I will try this ! Thanks. Why can I not have a flat bow? And is it necessary to tilt at the frog or all the time ? Emily thanks for watching . Well it’s not straight but that’s about all I can tell. And I need to stick my wrist out at the tip but that’s all I can really tell. Feel like I don’t know what I’m doing !! Is tilting not a bit advanced for me ?
Tilting is not advanced, it is basic. It gives you better control of the string. It enables you to play quietly and with expression. When you play fortissimo, you can flatten the bow - then you have much more bowhair in contact with the string.
Andrew
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Thanks Gordon I find it amazing you notice such tiny details although I suppose they aren’t that tiny when it comes to violin playing. I’ll give it a go.
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@Katie L -
I do think you did better with Greensleeves.
Why not work on what you notice, 1st - straighter bowing?
You aren't going to like where I'm going with this...
First of all, I think it's hard to take into consideration everything involved with bowing mechanics, especially all at once. You've got: neck, shoulder, shoulder joint, upper arm length, your elbow, lower arm length, wrist, fingers, bow length and both the vertical & horizontal position of the violin!
Unfortunately, we all have to find the best way to make all these things work together, while using the least amount of body parts & effort - so that bowing straight is easy & comfortable, for a prolonged time.
Take a look at the video you shared from CadenzaStringsNC (Greensleeves). The 1st thing I notice... his violin is parallel to the floor, sometimes even pointing slightly downward - and his violin height is close to his shoulder.
Now, look at the position of your violin, in respect to your body.
To me, your violin is pointing up & your shoulder rest is high - which makes your violin set high above the shoulder. I think these are factors that cause you problems starting at your bowing shoulder - and, of course, everything else is connected from there on.
I'm not saying go restless, but think there's got to be a better violin/rest position or maybe a different rest - that allows you to hold your violin so that bowing straight is more natural for your body.
Another great example (there are many) - is this video that stringy recently shared:
Brilliant Performance of Drowsy Maggie Thread
Look at Lettice's violin position - and watch where all the bowing movement emanates from... elbow, wrist/hand.
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This is a stab in the dark but I’ve been using this set up from time to time and I think it coincides with what you are saying Emily
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@Katie L -
Looks better! You might try to drop your elbow a little more - but proof will be in how comfortable you feel while bowing a long stroke.
There's a chin rest I have to go look for, that I think Fiddlerman has used - might help so you don't feel like you have to scrunch your neck. 😊
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You might feel better adding just a little height to your chin rest with some kind of chin pad - like this one:
https://fiddlershop.com/produc.....#038;_ss=c
There's quite a few extra tall chin rests at Fiddlershop - many are available in several different heights.
https://fiddlershop.com/collec.....price.lte=
This one is REALLY adjustable (but SOLD OUT)!
https://fiddlershop.com/produc.....#038;_ss=c
Check to see what you can find locally. 😊
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Thanks Emily. I need to practice in this position it feels like I’m not clamping so much now. I put my Stentor chin rest back on which I quite like.
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The busines of noticing the bow rotation isn't a tiny detail - my first observation in the video was the heaviness of tone. That led me immediately to the sul tasto bowing and the bow angle, etc. When you bow midway between bridge and fingerboard, and with only some of the bow hair, heavy bowing won't necessarily lead to a heavy tone.
Your stance in the video and in the still photo seems fine to me, as long as it is comfortable for you. If your elbow is too high, it's not necessarily your hardware - it could be that you are bowing too high simply because the G string is the outside string, and the tendency is to bow it as extremely as possible to keep away from the D string. Try double-stopping the D and G strings and then only lifting your elbow just enough to avoid the D string. A similar thing happens on the E string - people have their elbow much lower than needed, but that makes it hard to cross quickly from the E to the A string. Similarly, it's worth double-stopping A and E strings, then practise bowing the E string only just missing the A string.
Andrew
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