Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Please join our 2021 Fiddlerman “White Christmas” Group Project!

A A A
Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
The New Old Guy Re-Entering the String World
A personal view of the start of a journey into music and the viola.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (104 votes) 
Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 19, 2021 - 9:25 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
501sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Woot! Last post in this topic was #500!!!!! Hard to believe it's kept going for so long.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
November 19, 2021 - 9:52 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 3101
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
502sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@JohnG -

I'm VERY impressed! 

Great work! 

 

https://www.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/58761e7b0cf2ce85092bb066/600.jpg 

- Emily

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 19, 2021 - 10:12 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
503sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@ELCBK - Thanks.

For anyone who cares, this is what the A/V Lab looks like.

EGVPL A/V Lab Walkthru

Total practice/playing time was about an hour out of a 4 hour session! Only Amazing Grace and Wayfaring Stranger were played.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 20, 2021 - 5:07 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
504sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Got my hour in today and was disappointed. The videos I made yesterday really pinpointed how far off my intonation is. I don't know if it has gotten worse or if I never really heard it before. Spent time on etudes today and improvisation just to watch and hear as I play with the tuner showing just how bad I'm doing. The rest of time was the usual, minus Danny Boy.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
stringy
Members

Regulars
November 20, 2021 - 6:34 pm
Member Since: August 23, 2020
Forum Posts: 875
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

when you can hear how bad you sound it means you are improving. Before you couldnt hear it, because your ears were not trained at all, now they are getting better. Once you can hear your faults properly you can start to improve them.

What you will find is that every time you think you are finally playing in tune, you will suddenly realise that it can sound even more in tune, this is something that you have to experience and cant really be explained, not by me anyway. If you became happy with the sound you are producing you would never improve. The worlds greatest violinists constantly work on their intonation, all the time, for me thats the main use of scales.

I am telling you the truth here John, this instrument is very,very,very hard to learn, but you are doing something that other people cant do in a thousand years, getting any kind of tune out of this is fiendishly difficult, this is why violinists will help each other only they know how hard this is.

I am never ever happy with anything I play, even if I somehow manage to get it bang on in tune.

I will tell you one thing that you may find useful, when you use your tuner play a note D till its exactly correct, and I mean exact, listen to it, and keep listening,  try to hear the hollow ring it has, its completely different to the sharp or flat sound, to me it sounds almost like a hiss, quite beautiful, the bow to me feels like its skating on ice when hit perfectly but may be different for you, fix the sound in your head, the note will ring unmistakeably, as will e, a and g, once you recognise these notes, scales become incredibly useful for fixing the other notes in between.

You are doing exceptionally well dont get disheartened, everyone takes two steps backwards before they improve,

you are getting good. You are making music, and god loves musicians, keep at it, your getting there.

Bit more, bit more, snap #*÷?×[email protected]?#[email protected]

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 20, 2021 - 8:21 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
506sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@stringy - Thank you for the comforting words. The support I get from you and the others on this forum is one of the main reasons that I am able to stay focused on learning this instrument. The challenge is high, and I knew that going into it again, but the rewards definitely make the effort worthwhile.

I will endeavor to try your ideas on perfectly tuned open strings more consciously as it is something that I have actually flirted with occasionally, such as this afternoon. Now to make it a habit!

Thank you again for the encouragement!

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
November 20, 2021 - 9:57 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 3101
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
507sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@JohnG -

I think it's great that you can hear that. 

Think some people never hear it .

🤔 I don't think I could for quite some time - seems like I'm just starting to get it, now.

Avatar
ABitRusty
Members

Regulars
November 21, 2021 - 12:08 am
Member Since: February 9, 2019
Forum Posts: 1902
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
508sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@JohnG thats a nice setup at the library.  enjoyed the tour and videos.  looks like you have all you need there and thatll help if you ever dive into the recording stuff more at home.  maybe give you and idea of what you want/need if anything really.  with you having access to that you may not want more..

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 21, 2021 - 12:26 am
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
509sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@ELCBK - Thanks, but the problem is I am not hearing so much when I play as when I listen to recorded bits. Hopefully knowing this will raise my awareness.

@ABitRusty - It's interesting as the facility is new and the librarian in charge of this is not a guru with all the answers, so we are both learning from each other. One problem is that the lab is Apple-centric and neither the librarian nor I are not. But the bottom line is that I can make suggestions that can lead to changes and/or improvement. Much more dynamic than I could have hoped for. And, you have to admit, this whole thing is a LOT cheaper for me! So far the usage of the facility is extremely low and with it being only 10 minutes from the house, I can use it almost as easily as in my own home. 

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 22, 2021 - 5:46 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
510sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Back to practicing again with an hour and half with the last full repertoire. Part of the time was spent working on specific phrases which led me to post in the Learning to Play portion of the forum. Trying to improve intonation using the tuner to get me closer to the real deal.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 24, 2021 - 12:40 am
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
511sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Another hour today with same repertoire. More ear training with tuner, especially first position C on G string and G on the D string. May be helping, but will need much more practice to get this right.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
Gordon Shumway
London, England
Pro advisor
Members

Regulars
November 24, 2021 - 7:21 am
Member Since: August 1, 2016
Forum Posts: 1715
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

JohnG said
Another hour today with same repertoire. More ear training with tuner, especially first position C on G string and G on the D string. May be helping, but will need much more practice to get this right.

  

G on the D string is a little more interesting, as you should be able to hear and feel the G string vibrating in sympathy. Simple, slow scales are good for ear training - just GABCD on the G string, DEF#GA on the D string ABC#DE on the A and so on.

Andrew

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 24, 2021 - 12:31 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
513sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@Gordon Shumway - Thanks for the tips, I've probably heard it before, but I don't always remember these great ideas. lol

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 24, 2021 - 5:51 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
514sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Well, another hour. Samo-samo! If you think this is boring, howdja think I feel? lol But not really, still discovering better sounds, and that's the name of the game. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving is out our son's with his family, his wife's folks, my wife's brother and his wife. Should be a fun time!

I hope everyone here in the states has a terrific holiday and those around the world have a great day, too.

giphy.gifImage Enlarger

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
November 26, 2021 - 12:54 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1626
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
515sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

Hello @JohnG .  

I have been remiss as to constantly following your blog.  You may have mentioned this before, but I have not come across it.

I am curious as to the difficulty your had (if any) to adjusting the muscle memory of your bow hand after the luthier provided the viola with another bridge.  I vividly remember the difficulty I had after adjusting mine.  

Regarding your trials with intonation.  A standard tuner incorporates compromises needed to create a “well tempered” key board.  My intonation markedly improved when I moved to a more classically based physics system.  Stand alone tuners need to be rather expensive to achieve this.  Several apps for smart phones have the feature to do this.  I did a thread here previously.

Obstructions makes one clever.

The future is already here—it’s just not very evenly distributed. —William Gibson

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 26, 2021 - 2:35 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
516sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@Irv - Don't blame you for not constantly following this, it is often boring, even for me. That being said, I appreciate your checking in periodically.

My muscle memory is so poor, I really didn't feel much difference before and after the change, but then again, I'm not sure he replaced it, but perhaps merely modified it. If it changed the arc, I didn't notice it.

The Peterson StroboClip HD that I use has "Sweetener" tunings. From their manual, "VLA Viola open strings tuned in perfect fifth intervals. Both four (CGDA) and five string (CGDAE) violas are catered for within the one tuning preset."

I don't know if that really works, nor if it is closer to what you are suggesting. Someday I may have an ear (or two) that can tell the difference, but that ain't happenin' now!

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
ELCBK
USA
Members

Regulars
November 26, 2021 - 2:49 pm
Member Since: June 10, 2020
Forum Posts: 3101
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
517sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

@JohnG -

Thanks for pointing that out! 

I haven't tried it, yet. 

Figured it wouldn't make any difference until my intonation was better.  

...unless a different tuning can make that magically happen (?) 🤭

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 26, 2021 - 2:57 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
518sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

@ELCBK - Glad I brought that up. Hope it helps, or at least doesn't hurt! lol

I took my viola to our son's place yesterday, intending to try a practice session with him, but not enough time before dinner, and afterwards too bloated (both of us) to attempt it! There was also a two gap between dinner and dessert, and we didn't think it was going to be that long and then, after dessert it was too late to stick around long enough. So I never practiced at all!

Our son is playing in a pre-Christmas concert at church next Wednesday and suggested we come for that and then carve out some time to play together in his home.

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
JohnG
Greater Chicagoland
Members

Regulars
November 26, 2021 - 3:05 pm
Member Since: April 16, 2021
Forum Posts: 651
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
519sp_Permalink sp_Print
5

As an aside, the StroboClip HD has an extensive list of tunings (Sweeteners), so I thought I'd share this page from their manual.

StroboClipHD-Manual-Sweetners.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

The old curmudgeon!

Avatar
Irv
Members

Regulars
November 26, 2021 - 4:08 pm
Member Since: December 23, 2017
Forum Posts: 1626
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
520sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I have linked the topic area of possible interest in regards to tuning.

https://fiddlerman.com/forum/t.....n/#p108212

Obstructions makes one clever.

The future is already here—it’s just not very evenly distributed. —William Gibson

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 696
Currently Online: Mark, Gordon Shumway, katie m, RDP
Guest(s) 68
Currently Browsing this Page: Mark
1 Guest(s)
Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming HeadCheese, Mad_Wed, Prudence, Ginnysg, lakelivr, ButteryStuffs, harvestman, fiddlinmama, kit, makinnoise, wisco kid, Nathalie, marta, Raef, AmandaKulp, vocaliw95, nancyjoshua
Top Posters:
ELCBK: 3101
Mad_Wed: 2849
Barry: 2680
Fiddlestix: 2647
Oliver: 2439
DanielB: 2379
damfino: 1992
Kevin M.: 1972
ABitRusty: 1902
cdennyb: 1815
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 3
Members: 28150
Moderators: 0
Admins: 7
Forum Stats:
Groups: 16
Forums: 77
Topics: 9320
Posts: 116583
Newest Members:
Williamgop
Administrators: Fiddlerman: 15712, KindaScratchy: 1757, coolpinkone: 4180, BillyG: 3671, MrsFiddlerman: 2, Jimmie Bjorling: 0, Mouse: 3438