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The Old Guy Re-Entering the String World
A personal view of the start of a journey into music and the viola.
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (393 votes) 
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JohnG
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November 19, 2021 - 9:25 pm
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Woot! Last post in this topic was #500!!!!! Hard to believe it's kept going for so long.

The old curmudgeon!

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ELCBK
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November 19, 2021 - 9:52 pm
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@JohnG -

I'm VERY impressed! 

Great work! 

 

https://www.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/58761e7b0cf2ce85092bb066/600.jpg 

- Emily

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JohnG
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November 19, 2021 - 10:12 pm
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@ELCBK - Thanks.

For anyone who cares, this is what the A/V Lab looks like.

EGVPL A/V Lab Walkthru

Total practice/playing time was about an hour out of a 4 hour session! Only Amazing Grace and Wayfaring Stranger were played.

The old curmudgeon!

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JohnG
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November 20, 2021 - 5:07 pm
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Got my hour in today and was disappointed. The videos I made yesterday really pinpointed how far off my intonation is. I don't know if it has gotten worse or if I never really heard it before. Spent time on etudes today and improvisation just to watch and hear as I play with the tuner showing just how bad I'm doing. The rest of time was the usual, minus Danny Boy.

The old curmudgeon!

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stringy
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November 20, 2021 - 6:34 pm
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when you can hear how bad you sound it means you are improving. Before you couldnt hear it, because your ears were not trained at all, now they are getting better. Once you can hear your faults properly you can start to improve them.

What you will find is that every time you think you are finally playing in tune, you will suddenly realise that it can sound even more in tune, this is something that you have to experience and cant really be explained, not by me anyway. If you became happy with the sound you are producing you would never improve. The worlds greatest violinists constantly work on their intonation, all the time, for me thats the main use of scales.

I am telling you the truth here John, this instrument is very,very,very hard to learn, but you are doing something that other people cant do in a thousand years, getting any kind of tune out of this is fiendishly difficult, this is why violinists will help each other only they know how hard this is.

I am never ever happy with anything I play, even if I somehow manage to get it bang on in tune.

I will tell you one thing that you may find useful, when you use your tuner play a note D till its exactly correct, and I mean exact, listen to it, and keep listening,  try to hear the hollow ring it has, its completely different to the sharp or flat sound, to me it sounds almost like a hiss, quite beautiful, the bow to me feels like its skating on ice when hit perfectly but may be different for you, fix the sound in your head, the note will ring unmistakeably, as will e, a and g, once you recognise these notes, scales become incredibly useful for fixing the other notes in between.

You are doing exceptionally well dont get disheartened, everyone takes two steps backwards before they improve,

you are getting good. You are making music, and god loves musicians, keep at it, your getting there.

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JohnG
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November 20, 2021 - 8:21 pm
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@stringy - Thank you for the comforting words. The support I get from you and the others on this forum is one of the main reasons that I am able to stay focused on learning this instrument. The challenge is high, and I knew that going into it again, but the rewards definitely make the effort worthwhile.

I will endeavor to try your ideas on perfectly tuned open strings more consciously as it is something that I have actually flirted with occasionally, such as this afternoon. Now to make it a habit!

Thank you again for the encouragement!

The old curmudgeon!

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ELCBK
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November 20, 2021 - 9:57 pm
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@JohnG -

I think it's great that you can hear that. 

Think some people never hear it .

🤔 I don't think I could for quite some time - seems like I'm just starting to get it, now.

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ABitRusty
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November 21, 2021 - 12:08 am
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@JohnG thats a nice setup at the library.  enjoyed the tour and videos.  looks like you have all you need there and thatll help if you ever dive into the recording stuff more at home.  maybe give you and idea of what you want/need if anything really.  with you having access to that you may not want more..

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JohnG
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November 21, 2021 - 12:26 am
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@ELCBK - Thanks, but the problem is I am not hearing so much when I play as when I listen to recorded bits. Hopefully knowing this will raise my awareness.

@ABitRusty - It's interesting as the facility is new and the librarian in charge of this is not a guru with all the answers, so we are both learning from each other. One problem is that the lab is Apple-centric and neither the librarian nor I are not. But the bottom line is that I can make suggestions that can lead to changes and/or improvement. Much more dynamic than I could have hoped for. And, you have to admit, this whole thing is a LOT cheaper for me! So far the usage of the facility is extremely low and with it being only 10 minutes from the house, I can use it almost as easily as in my own home. 

The old curmudgeon!

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JohnG
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November 22, 2021 - 5:46 pm
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Back to practicing again with an hour and half with the last full repertoire. Part of the time was spent working on specific phrases which led me to post in the Learning to Play portion of the forum. Trying to improve intonation using the tuner to get me closer to the real deal.

The old curmudgeon!

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JohnG
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November 24, 2021 - 12:40 am
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Another hour today with same repertoire. More ear training with tuner, especially first position C on G string and G on the D string. May be helping, but will need much more practice to get this right.

The old curmudgeon!

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Gordon Shumway
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November 24, 2021 - 7:21 am
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JohnG said
Another hour today with same repertoire. More ear training with tuner, especially first position C on G string and G on the D string. May be helping, but will need much more practice to get this right.

  

G on the D string is a little more interesting, as you should be able to hear and feel the G string vibrating in sympathy. Simple, slow scales are good for ear training - just GABCD on the G string, DEF#GA on the D string ABC#DE on the A and so on.

Andrew

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JohnG
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November 24, 2021 - 12:31 pm
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@Gordon Shumway - Thanks for the tips, I've probably heard it before, but I don't always remember these great ideas. lol

The old curmudgeon!

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JohnG
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November 24, 2021 - 5:51 pm
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Well, another hour. Samo-samo! If you think this is boring, howdja think I feel? lol But not really, still discovering better sounds, and that's the name of the game. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving is out our son's with his family, his wife's folks, my wife's brother and his wife. Should be a fun time!

I hope everyone here in the states has a terrific holiday and those around the world have a great day, too.

giphy.gifImage Enlarger

The old curmudgeon!

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Irv
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November 26, 2021 - 12:54 pm
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Hello @JohnG .  

I have been remiss as to constantly following your blog.  You may have mentioned this before, but I have not come across it.

I am curious as to the difficulty your had (if any) to adjusting the muscle memory of your bow hand after the luthier provided the viola with another bridge.  I vividly remember the difficulty I had after adjusting mine.  

Regarding your trials with intonation.  A standard tuner incorporates compromises needed to create a “well tempered” key board.  My intonation markedly improved when I moved to a more classically based physics system.  Stand alone tuners need to be rather expensive to achieve this.  Several apps for smart phones have the feature to do this.  I did a thread here previously.

Success is the progressive realisation of a worthy ideal. —Earl Nightingale.

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JohnG
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November 26, 2021 - 2:35 pm
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@Irv - Don't blame you for not constantly following this, it is often boring, even for me. That being said, I appreciate your checking in periodically.

My muscle memory is so poor, I really didn't feel much difference before and after the change, but then again, I'm not sure he replaced it, but perhaps merely modified it. If it changed the arc, I didn't notice it.

The Peterson StroboClip HD that I use has "Sweetener" tunings. From their manual, "VLA Viola open strings tuned in perfect fifth intervals. Both four (CGDA) and five string (CGDAE) violas are catered for within the one tuning preset."

I don't know if that really works, nor if it is closer to what you are suggesting. Someday I may have an ear (or two) that can tell the difference, but that ain't happenin' now!

The old curmudgeon!

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ELCBK
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November 26, 2021 - 2:49 pm
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@JohnG -

Thanks for pointing that out! 

I haven't tried it, yet. 

Figured it wouldn't make any difference until my intonation was better.  

...unless a different tuning can make that magically happen (?) 🤭

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JohnG
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November 26, 2021 - 2:57 pm
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@ELCBK - Glad I brought that up. Hope it helps, or at least doesn't hurt! lol

I took my viola to our son's place yesterday, intending to try a practice session with him, but not enough time before dinner, and afterwards too bloated (both of us) to attempt it! There was also a two gap between dinner and dessert, and we didn't think it was going to be that long and then, after dessert it was too late to stick around long enough. So I never practiced at all!

Our son is playing in a pre-Christmas concert at church next Wednesday and suggested we come for that and then carve out some time to play together in his home.

The old curmudgeon!

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JohnG
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November 26, 2021 - 3:05 pm
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As an aside, the StroboClip HD has an extensive list of tunings (Sweeteners), so I thought I'd share this page from their manual.

StroboClipHD-Manual-Sweetners.jpgImage Enlarger

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The old curmudgeon!

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Irv
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November 26, 2021 - 4:08 pm
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I have linked the topic area of possible interest in regards to tuning.

https://fiddlerman.com/forum/t.....n/#p108212

Success is the progressive realisation of a worthy ideal. —Earl Nightingale.

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