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Hi!
I just joined FiddlerMan today and so far I really like it. Great lessons, friendly teacher and it's free. What could be better?
I am a 60 year old, self-taught multi-instrumentalist, with no formal training. For me the holy grail is to learn violin. In preparation for learning violin I have been learning to play mandolin for the last 10 years or so. The fingerboard and tuning are the same, so I thought it could help. Over my lifetime I have tried to learn reading music many times and I just can't seem to master it. I even joined a community band (1st alto sax) hoping that it would help. After about 10 years I dropped out, due to my work. During the 10 years that I played also sax for the band, I was never able to play at speed. And as it turns out 1st alto sax gets a lot of juicy solos, that I struggled to pull off (at speed) and the other members I feel tolerated my shortcomings. I have always theorized that I started too late in life (learning to read music) and missed what is reffered to in psychology as the critical period (re: critical period hypothesis).
For the mandolin I have relied on tablature to help me learn songs. I have also used tablature extensively for learning guitar songs. My first exposure to reading music was in 4th grade, when I was learning to play Bb clarinet. At that age I thought I was clever, playing without reading. Little did I know... In high school I played electric bass guitar for the jazz band. The director would play my parts on the piano and record them and I would then learn them by ear and that is how it went for the 2 years that I was in the jazz band. The director was willing to do this because he said "I had technique", no doubt acquired by the rock band that I was also in at the time, playing bass guitar and singing. At that age, all I ever wanted to do was play. And at that age, I was actually able to do just that, for the most part. I never even attempted to read for bass because it was yet another clef and I had yet to master G-clef.
In any case I have never given up and I recently purchased an intermediate violin that I just love and now I am trying to achieve this lifelong dream of learning to play violin.
Thank you to the creator of this great site for creating this wonderful site!
I look forward to meeting other people, who also love music and aspire to play violin.
Regulars
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Welcome to the forum, people on here are really friendly and helpful, there are also some very good violinists on here , and people of different abilities. Most on here also play lots of different instruments, I took up violin as a chalenge to myself. Reding music comes with practice, simple as that, lots of traditional fiddle players dont read music at all, the greatest skill for a fiddle player is to play by ear, at least in my opinion lol. Ask any question someone will have the answer.
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Thank you for the warm welcome stringy!
I hope I didn't come across as pretentious with my multi-instrumental mention. I was afraid to write that, just for that reason. But it is an important part of who I am and certainly relevant to this discussion.
And I have no doubt that you're 100% correct that reading just takes practice. I do have a bad habit of being short on patience with exercises that can seem boring. I will keep practicing and maybe sharpen the reading skills, even when things get boring.
Thanks again for sharing your comments.
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Welcome to the forum, @Paul C! I am Mouse, Forum Administrator. I will be getting a Welcome email off to you soon, I just got back from vacation at 1:02 am this morning, so it might be a couple of days. So much to take care.
We have many "mature" learners here. We do have younger learners, also. We are at all levels if abilities, and varied goals.
Don't forget the menu bar above the forum body. There are are lot of tools and lessons there that Fiddlerman has provided.
Welcome to the forum!
🐭
The Bumblebee Flies!
Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.
Regulars
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Not pretentious at all, good knowing a bit about people;) and good of you to share a bit of your history.
As for reading, I tend to equate the dots with were my fingers go, rather than what the actual note is that I am playing, bit strange but maybe you will end up playing like that, or maybe not, I could tell you what notes they are if you asked but when playing they sort of go straight from visual, to finger placement, without any thought. My biggest problem with reading is getting The counting right..
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Mouse said
Welcome to the forum, @Paul C! I am Mouse, Forum Administrator. I will be getting a Welcome email off to you soon, I just got back from vacation at 1:02 am this morning, so it might be a couple of days. So much to take care.We have many "mature" learners here. We do have younger learners, also. We are at all levels if abilities, and varied goals.
Don't forget the menu bar above the forum body. There are are lot of tools and lessons there that Fiddlerman has provided.
Welcome to the forum!
🐭
Thank you Mouse! BTW, my nickname used to be mouse when I was a kid.
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stringy said
Not pretentious at all, good knowing a bit about people;) and good of you to share a bit of your history.As for reading, I tend to equate the dots with were my fingers go, rather than what the actual note is that I am playing, bit strange but maybe you will end up playing like that, or maybe not, I could tell you what notes they are if you asked but when playing they sort of go straight from visual, to finger placement, without any thought. My biggest problem with reading is getting The counting right..
Thanks again Stringy! I have often theorized that the conversion in my head from dot to lettername is useless and consumes valuable processing time. I always believed that the best case scenario would be if your brain equated the dot to a finger position. So, you're right on! Incidentally, my day job is software engineer, so I tend to overanalyze just about everything.
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Paul C said Thank you Mouse! BTW, my nickname used to be mouse when I was a kid.
I was Mouse as a kid, also.
🐭
The Bumblebee Flies!
Please ignore any typos. My typing ability on a real typewriter did not transfer to these device key pads.
Regulars
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@Paul C -
Welcome! 🤗
It's great you play other instruments, I'm sure your experiences will help you stick to the fiddle when learning gets difficult. I started older than you!
You'll find ALL the Fiddlerman Tutorials, including the "Tune A Week" series, EXTREMELY helpful!
Is it you can't read notation, or are just slow reading - like me?
Can't Learn To Read a Musical Score? Thread
I'll visualize notation by fingering, like Stringy mentioned - helps especially if I'm switching between clefs, but I use it more to analyze. I really don't practice sight reading enough to make it helpful. I've also found quite a bit of traditional folk music can have idioms(?) that aren't apparent, unless heard. I'd rather not rely on my guessing.
Traditional fiddling has been learned for generations without sheet music!
I'm sure you've seen there are different kinds of animated violin tutorials on YouTube - quite a few have animated tabs!
Glad you found us!
- Emily
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ELCBK said
@Paul C -
Welcome! 🤗
It's great you play other instruments, I'm sure your experiences will help you stick to the fiddle when learning gets difficult. I started older than you!
You'll find ALL the Fiddlerman Tutorials, including the "Tune A Week" series, EXTREMELY helpful!
Is it you can't read notation, or are just slow reading - like me?
Can't Learn To Read a Musical Score? Thread
I'll visualize notation by fingering, like Stringy mentioned - helps especially if I'm switching between clefs, but I use it more to analyze. I really don't practice sight reading enough to make it helpful. I've also found quite a bit of traditional folk music can have idioms(?) that aren't apparent, unless heard. I'd rather not rely on my guessing.
Traditional fiddling has been learned for generations without sheet music!
I'm sure you've seen there are different kinds of animated violin tutorials on YouTube - quite a few have animated tabs!
Glad you found us!
- Emily
Hi Emily,
Thank you for the warm welcome.
I can read. I'm just slow at it.
These days it seems I'm getting slower at everything.
Nice to meet you.
Regulars
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welcome to the forum Paul! Im thinking the tunes you learned on mandolin will help.
Regulars
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Paul C
Welcome to the forum, and your violin journey, remember to have fun as the fiddle is an aggravating instrument at times.
Mark
Master the Frog and you have mastered the bow.
Albert Sammons
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ABitRusty said
welcome to the forum Paul! Im thinking the tunes you learned on mandolin will help.
Thank you, I think it helps too.
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Mark said
Paul CWelcome to the forum, and your violin journey, remember to have fun as the fiddle is an aggravating instrument at times.
Mark
Thank you Mark, it is fun.
Regulars
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@Paul C Welcome to the Forum! You're experience on the mandolin should help you a lot.
The reading just takes some patience, and time.
Paul C said
....I have always theorized that I started too late in life (learning to read music) and missed what is reffered to in psychology as the critical period (re: critical period hypothesis).
I don't think it is so much as missing a critical period of learning as it is, as adults, we have expectations of what we hear, and so immediately pass judgement on ourselves & the sound we're making and what progress we should be making in a given time period (whereas a young child does not).
I think a lot of adults who take up an instrument will draw on previous experience (as adults do) and reflect on how they learned as a child--and then approach this new learning endeavor in the same way. And this is where I think some adults get stuck.
Adults just learn differently. I think sometimes adults need to take some time to learn how they learn now, as adults, so they can be more effective in their approach to learning an instrument.
Lots of good info here, & good people who will share/help you out
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
Regulars
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Welcome to the forum, Paul!
SharonC said
I don't think it is so much as missing a critical period of learning as it is, as adults, we have expectations of what we hear, and so immediately pass judgement on ourselves & the sound we're making and what progress we should be making in a given time period (whereas a young child does not).
I think the single biggest advantage for children starting young is that, by the time they're old enough to be self-conscious about their sound or their progress, they've already gotten through the beginner stage and have very little memory of sounding really bad. They bypass some of the psychological hurdles that we adults tend to put in front of ourselves.
I suspect that may even be a component of the "critical period" for language learning: simply not being old enough to get self-conscious about speaking a language badly.
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SharonC said
@Paul C Welcome to the Forum! You're experience on the mandolin should help you a lot.The reading just takes some patience, and time.
Paul C said
....I have always theorized that I started too late in life (learning to read music) and missed what is reffered to in psychology as the critical period (re: critical period hypothesis).
I don't think it is so much as missing a critical period of learning as it is, as adults, we have expectations of what we hear, and so immediately pass judgement on ourselves & the sound we're making and what progress we should be making in a given time period (whereas a young child does not).
I think a lot of adults who take up an instrument will draw on previous experience (as adults do) and reflect on how they learned as a child--and then approach this new learning endeavor in the same way. And this is where I think some adults get stuck.
Adults just learn differently. I think sometimes adults need to take some time to learn how they learn now, as adults, so they can be more effective in their approach to learning an instrument.
Lots of good info here, & good people who will share/help you out
Thank you for the reply Sharon. I've been working on my sight reading with the violin and I think it's getting better little by little. Just need to stick to it, even when it gets boring.
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AndrewH said
Welcome to the forum, Paul!SharonC said
I don't think it is so much as missing a critical period of learning as it is, as adults, we have expectations of what we hear, and so immediately pass judgement on ourselves & the sound we're making and what progress we should be making in a given time period (whereas a young child does not).
I think the single biggest advantage for children starting young is that, by the time they're old enough to be self-conscious about their sound or their progress, they've already gotten through the beginner stage and have very little memory of sounding really bad. They bypass some of the psychological hurdles that we adults tend to put in front of ourselves.
I suspect that may even be a component of the "critical period" for language learning: simply not being old enough to get self-conscious about speaking a language badly.
Thanks Andrew. I think it's mainly just an excuse for me to be lazy and not do it 
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@Paul C - Welcome to the forum.
What a great introduction. I feel like I know you well now. By the way, I'm turning 60 in 10 days.... Mind boggling for me to wrap my head around that. 🤣
Seems that you have the perfect tools to learn quickly. I picked up a mandolin myself, but was too disappointed in my plucking skills to keep going. I'm not giving up yet, but I'll hold off until I'm retired. I get so busy that I find it hard to visit my favorite site...
Looking forward to following your progress.
"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."
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Fiddlerman said
@Paul C - Welcome to the forum.What a great introduction. I feel like I know you well now. By the way, I'm turning 60 in 10 days.... Mind boggling for me to wrap my head around that. 🤣
Seems that you have the perfect tools to learn quickly. I picked up a mandolin myself, but was too disappointed in my plucking skills to keep going. I'm not giving up yet, but I'll hold off until I'm retired. I get so busy that I find it hard to visit my favorite site...
Looking forward to following your progress.
Thank you for the reply Fiddlerman! And thank you so much for this site!
I wouldn't sweat it too much turning 60. It's the new 40 
I have done pretty well on the mandolin but I've kind of avoided tremolo all together. Not sure why, I just don't really have much use for it. Another cool tool I have used to help with my left hand is a soprano ukulele strung with specially made strings to allow it to be tuned to GDAE. The fingerboard is also exactly the same as the mandolin and violin. It's great to use because the strings are very easy on the fingers, it's cheap but not a toy and it's quiet, so I can sit on the couch and quietly pluck it without bothering everyone in the room. I highly recommend it.
Don't think I'm weird for saying this but I have a habit of seeing celebrities in the people I meet and when I watched the first few of your videos I knew you reminded me of someone. Mel Gibson. My wife agreed as well. Your eyes are similar to his but also your mannerisms and the way you talk, very laid back and confident.
I will try to post my progress on here as time permits. I have tons of irons in the fire with my job and home etc but I do manage to rehearse at least a half hour a day, usually more.
Thanks again for everything!
Happy Friday!
-Paul Churchfield
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