I mentioned in the Traditional Irish Styles Fiddle Playing Thread - how much I love "O'Donnell's Return" from the Highland Sessions, but later found someone in the comments said it was actually called "The Haughs Of Cromdale". 

Maybe close, but they are different tunes - and I found some help to learn them, too! 

Here's the bare bones, simple sheet music & midi for "O'Donnell's Reurn"! 

https://abcnotation.com/tunePa...../tb17/0007

Thought it would be fun to take a look at some tunes from a Piper's perspective. 

Pretty interesting take on rhythm & ornaments! 

For Fiddle reference, the Maggie Cameron Strathspey (thesession.org) is played in this video - starts at 01:38. 

Keith Bowes plays Maggie Cameron Strathspey on the pipes - great to compare the sheet music here to what I linked at the session for fiddle, because of the ornaments. 

Here's the 1st part of Keith's piper tutorials for Maggie Cameron Strathspey, where he talks about rhythm & phrasing (find the other parts of this tutorial at Keith Bowes's Youtube Channel). 

Manuscript in Skinner's hand of his 'Pipe Strathspey for violin', 'Maggie Cameron'. Since the pipes have no G sharp, the key gives G natural. His note below the tune says to 'Press hard with the fingers, and don't omit the wee notes or fluttering leaves. Give one bow to each bar as a rule.'  

Here: With audio of James Scott Skinner playing it!

ELCBK said
Found an interesting article relating to Pipers, Fiddles & the Origin of the Strathspey - The Strathspey in Scottish Music - by William Lamb, from bagpipe.news.

In earlier times, terms such as jig, reel, strathspey and hornpipe were ambiguous regarding musical form, and more or less interchangeable.

We are accustomed to thinking of tune types (e.g. reel) as being primary, and their homophonous dances (the reel) as being secondary. However, in earlier times, a ‘reel’ was any tune that could be used to accompany a reel; dancing was the definitive activity, not the music. It was inconsequential if a ‘reel’ was in 4/4, 6/8 or even 9/8.

A little more on time signatures...

Found Pipers have 'Marches' in 6/8 Time Signature! 

At thesession.org you will find them usually notated like 'Jig', but THEY SHOULD NOT TO BE PLAYED LIKE ONE!  

No need for three legs, just one step per beat, with three eighth notes per beat instead of two (trust me, I marched a lot in the early days of my military career). [AlBrown] 

EXCELLENT VIDEO - "Understanding 6/8 Rhythms in Pipe Music" - from Matt Willis!  This is a unique take on 'Compound' Rhythm. 

Ooo... FINALLY - explanation of the 'language' used for rhythm singing!

Maybe just keep Jig = March in mind while learning these tunes from YouTube Fiddle Tutorials (many good ones available).

There's more 6/8 Marches (usually listed as Jigs) than you might think!

Discussion at The Session - 6/8 Marches

Skye Boat Song - we all know it from the "Outlander" series - played slow as an Air.  Here's a simple bagpipe style play-along. (Teach Yourself Bagpipes With Lindsay Davidson).

"Farewell To The Creeks - PM Sam Scott 6/8 Set", play-along (NorthOlbo). 

Sounds MUCH better if you add just a little swing between the 2 heavy beats - like here:  Played by Tom McGovern

Farewell To The Creeks (a great mixolydian tune)  ...more info from ceolachian at The Session

A pipe march ~ “composed by Pipe Major James ‘Pipie’ Robertson of Boyne, Banffshire, in 1915 when he was a prisoner of war in Germany. According to Norman Kennedy, the ‘Creeks’ refers to the Native-American tribe the Creek Indians and not streams.” 

I didn't know about the 'Creeks' - only the 'Cree' Indians!  "The history of early Georgia is largely the history of the Creek Indians."

🤔... so, think I just naturally enjoy playing my Jigs at a March pace, maybe with a little swing to the hips - no wonder I get confused on rhythms!  I'll blame it on too much marching when I was in AF Basic Training (such an impressionable age back then). 😏 

- Emily

...wanted to share this 6/8 March, because I found it just hilarious that The Fife Strathspey & Reel Society replaced bagpipes with accordions!  🤣

"Dovecot Park" 

...have to admit that from now on, every time I run across a 6/8 time signature - I'll definitely take a closer look, to find out where it came from!

- Emily

🤔... cool drum patterns are a very expected part of a Scottish pipe band, so why can't I find more FIDDLERS (especially playing Scottish tunes) using them for accompaniment?  

Scottish Pipe Band Drumming Article - didn't know that Scottish drums are different! 

...got to thinking, there are many tabla Hindustani rhythm videos for fiddlers to play along with - so, I decided to look for snare drum videos with Scottish piper tune rhythms! 

I found practice video play-alongs that included a metronome beat, like this "Massed Band - 6/8 March Tempo" from Pipe Band Drummer YT Channel. 

Another Channel, Pipe Band Drumming YT Channel, has 2 HUGE playlists of video play-along drum scores, like "The Green Hills of Tyrol" - this favorite of mine turns out to be a 3/4 MARCH!!! 

...do I hear a car in the background?  😳 

Adding more to my confusion about March times...

I always associate the "The Green Hills of Tyrol" (aka. A Scottish Soldier) - with Scotland.  I just found out it happens to be a 3/4 time MARCH!  I've been finding that Fiddlers don't seem to be playing it - they are playing a different Reel or Jig, by the same name & I just don't see the appeal. 

Sheet music to fiddle with - in the link. 

@ABitRusty -

...reverb 🤣 surprised Paul has any hearing left!  Think I've watched almost all of his videos. 

So, a 9/8 March! 😵  How many more different time signatures can a MARCH have? 🤪  Thank you for adding to my confusion. 🥴 

For Sam - I love swing in tunes, but (IMHO) it adds joy to what is supposed to feel like a lament. 

Think Paul's playing it just a wee bit fast for a March, or a lament - kinda surprised me. 

Fiddlerman's Version, A Tune a Week #40 – Battle of the Somme, is a great tutorial - it's still different than the others, in 4/4 time. 

This thread has broadened my outlook.

I know it all depends on why someone plays a tune - and I'd like to learn this one, but think I'd shoot more for the speed & rhythm that I feel here (or play like an Air): 

Thank you for bringing up this great tune!

(edited)

@ABitRusty -

Sorry, will try to clarify. 

Fiddlerman's is in 4/4 - different than Paul's. 

Like you said, Paul's seems right, so maybe in the 9/8, but sounds a little too fast for the feeling of a lament.  I have seen/heard marches at that speed, though (the difference between a 'Quick' March & a 'Slow' March?).

I listened to Sam's again, heard the 'one, two, one, two' - wasn't until I sped it up a bit that I could hear it was more like Fiddlerman's 4/4 time. (Thank you! for pointing out similar). 

The tune is listed in 9/8 at thesession.org - but labeled a 'slip jig'!  I still feel the 9/8 March time fits the "Battle of the Somme" best.  🤔... my Grandfather fought in France in WWI, might have even been there for the '2nd Battle of the Somme' (1918), which I think had a better outcome than 1916.

From The Fiddler's Companion: 

Scottish, Retreat March (9/8 time). D Major. Standard tuning. AABB. This pipe tune, a retreat from Army Manual (Book 2) and composed by William Laurie (1882-1916) commemorates one of the greatest and most terrible battles of World War I. Jack Campin remarks that Laurie "just lived to see it become an immediate success before dying of his wounds a few months later.” “The retreat march is not necessarily a march time tune which would be marched to,” explains Stuart Eydmann; rather, “as often as not it was played as part of the evening ritual in military camps as day duties gave way to night ones. It was not linked to the military manoeuvre of retreating in or from battle but was linked to the idea of refuge and safety in the camp.” The tune is sometimes heard as a slow air, after the fashion of the Albion Country Band’s interpretation, no doubt engendered by the horrible human outcome in terms of loss of life.

Oh, NOOO! 😳  THERE ARE 12/8 MARCHES, TOO!  

Some found at thesession.org, but transcribed as 6/8 'jigs'.  Hear this example at the session (see comments): Dugald Gillespie (I like this tune).

Now, the 12/8 March version:

I'm not hearing any difference between the Scottish Piper 12/8 March & the 6/8 Jig version at the session!  Think the transcription is good, but maybe software limits labeling correctly(?) - or I just can't tell the difference. 😞

🤔... think I'm playing ALL my jigs like compound 6/8 Marches! 😳

Geez, not sure if part of my confusion stems from that I might have been unconsciously interpreting Compound Meters (6/8, 9/8 & 12/8) as a syncopation, hearing duple AND triple meter at the same time (if that makes any sense), e.g., "Garyowen", is supposed to be a 6/8 March (duple meter), others have been lead to believe it's a 6/8 Jig (triple meter) - including me.  But, it always sounded more complex to me, than either one!  ...maybe I'm confusing meter with rhythm. 😔 

This Bagpipe Music Library has huge lists of tunes, grouped by time signature/type of tune - great for reference with small sound bites. 

Compound Time - Can You Hear & Feel It? Thread

I love that Larry Sanger changed his tuning to EAAA (post 3) to get the drones, but I'm very hesitant to tune up the whole step on the G string - only because I've had a few issues with the string windings in regular tuning. 

Larry tunes the D string down 3 whole steps, which seems crazy - he mentioned it was very loose, but fine for a drone. 

After I learn some more of these tunes better - making sure I understand these rhythms, was thinking I'd sit down & take a good look at all my options for droning... might even be time to drag Mortimer back out & string up with something more forgiving of tuning changes.  Helicores, maybe? 

Looked to get a better idea of how pipers look at the March vs Strathspey vs Reel (known as the MSR), and found a standard - the Australian Pipe Band Association (APBA) "National Principle of Piping". 

Thought this was very interesting about what they want in Reels: 

Reels are another dance idiom. They should flow musically rather than bounce as a Strathspey does.
They should be of similar tempo to the march and should be played in two bar phrases with good
attention to up beats. Round horn/reels the likes of those often heard in medleysare not suitable.
A good display of reel idiom will be sought. Also fancy medley style finishes and harmonies are totally inappropriate. 

See attachment.