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Ragtime & Swing on the Fiddle!
Gotta love that rhythm!
Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 Topic Rating: 5 (6 votes) 
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ELCB
Michigan, USA
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October 23, 2020 - 9:42 pm
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3 Musical Notes Smiley I love these rhythms! 

My "Nana" would play them on her Baby Grand, along with Theatre and Movie Show tunes, plus she taught popular dance of her time (various Foxtrots) before she was married.  Now, at my age I can better understand her need to play upbeat music and watch movies with happy endings. 

So, easy to see who influenced my interest here, but on the fiddle, viola, cello? 

Oh, YES!  

First, I know there's "Country Rag", "Boogie-woogie" - that spills into the Blues, "Western Swing", etc...  The lines get very blurry in these genres, for me. 

Because "Country" has it's own separate genre spot on this forum, it would be nice to stay clear of "Country" tunes here - but I doubt if that's entirely possible. 😁

The iconic "Maple Leaf Rag"... well, maybe.🙄  Performed by David Reffkin.

"Red Apple Rag" - Jon Harkness. 

 

"Maytime Swing" - Patti Kusturok.

 

If anyone's seen the fabulous movie, ''Swing Kids (1993)'' you'd know I have to include this one.  "Sing, Sing, Sing (With a Swing) - the PGHS Chamber Orchestra with Violins, Violas & Cellos! 

    

Btw, there's also a good thread elsewhere in this Genre - think title is "Lick of the Week - Swing" (great lick).

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/a4/6f/c0a46f4a2d6370d2ed9512536ce19823.jpg

- Emily 

This is all related to the Jazz genre... maybe except for the "Backwards Maple Leaf Rag" (lol)- so is this thread okay here? 

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GregW
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October 25, 2020 - 1:24 am
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East Tennessee blues is the only one like these Ive attempted.

Heres another neat one you may like..  

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ELCB
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October 25, 2020 - 5:34 pm
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I think it's important to understand a little about the roots, so I'll try to give it a go...

Ragtime originated in New Orleans as music for dancing. 

  • Ragtime showed up with "Prohibition", especially at Speakeasies - maybe also in response to WWI - adding polyrhythms to the popular Military March style music of "John Philip Sousa" (btw, originally a violinist).  The earliest "Rags" were titled "Marches" and even called "jigs", until the mid-1890's  
  • Ragtime may have been influenced by "Cake Walk" dancing - popular in the South after Black emancipation. 
  • Ragtime had a big influence on early Jazz, fostered new dance steps - Vernon and Irene Castle refined the "Foxtrot".  The Castles promoted it all in early Movies, on Broadway, Paris and in teaching - "Dance Bands" grew to "Dance Orchestras".  
  • Ragtime was the 1st African-American music to gain fame throughout the World. 
  • Ragtime written for piano - "It was usually written in 2/4 or 4/4 time with a predominant left-hand pattern of bass notes on strong beats (beats 1 and 3) and chords on weak beats (beat 2 and 4) accompanying a syncopated melody in the right hand." (Wikipedia)

Here's a crazy fast example of "Twelfth Street Rag" (Ivy Phillips). 

...btw, Scott Joplin felt "Ragtime" should never be played fast!

 

"Swing" is an early form of Jazz, developed from "Ragtime".

  • Swing was most popular during the 1930's - 1940's (btw, Hitler tried to wipe it out). 
  • Lois Armstrong (from New Orleans, but in Chicago Jazz scene), helped change the "Dance Orchestra", with emphasis on the off-beat and brought about the "Big Band/Swing Era". 
  • Swing later blended with other genres like "Blues" (shuffles/grooves) to make "Western Swing" and jazz violin to become "Gypsy Swing" (of Django Reinhardt and Stéphane Grappelli)
  • Hot Swing was crazy fun with "Jitterbug" dancing - started in the late 1920's with the "Lindy Hop".
  • Swing Dance lived past the "Swing Era" with R&B and early Rock&Roll.

"Dill Pickle Rag" (with Swing rhythm) Fiddle Lesson by Mike Rolland.

https://rlv.zcache.com/vintage_cat_violinist-rcc62eaa8a2154d03bc90ce062ad2962d_xvuat_8byvr_307.jpg

- Emily 

Thanx, @GregW - Like them, but think I'm partial to the East Tennessee Blues!

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Gordon Shumway
London, England
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October 27, 2020 - 11:45 am
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Two CDs I've bought recently: -

psc=1

http://www.oldhatrecords.com/cd1003.html

And a book, recommended for its small size and cheapness, although some would quibble with its content.

psc=1

A recommendation, but I'm too mean to spend $20 on a used CD: -

keywords=Good+for+What+Ails+You&qid=1599745761&sr=8-1

And all this stuff is on youtube if you look for it.

This track features the jug - my favourite instrument of all.

Andrew

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GregW
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October 27, 2020 - 5:41 pm
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more of a swing vibe.. may not check the boxes for the topic...but cool

 

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 6:28 pm
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@Gordon Shumway -

Thank you! 

Great info at your Old Hat Records link & LOVE the "Jug Band" video!

 

So, "Jug Bands" originally played Jazz, Ragtime and Blues (Hokum?) - and Country Breakdowns(?).

They were big in the 1920's, but faded mid 1930's - later to be revived.  Originally vaudeville and medicine show musicians, now they are popular - even "Jug Band Festivals" and "Competitions"! 

"Chasin' Gus' Ghost" (2007) is a film documentary on Jug Bands that might be good - I haven't seen it, yet.

Ragtime has traditionally been mixed a lot with "Blues" and "Jazz" - making this very confusing at times! 

"W.C.Hardy" was a classically train musician and arranger/composer, mixing Ragtime, Blues and Jazz - "Memphis Blues", "Saint Louis Blues". 

Here's "Memphis Blues" performed by the Mobile Strugglers. 

"Will Marion Cook" was a classically trained violinist as well as composer of Ragtime Theatre music - a student of Dvorák. 

Here is the Overture to "In Dahomey" by Will Marion Cook.  

 

https://www.lanesboro.lib.mn.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cat_fiddle.jpg

 

- Emily 

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 7:27 pm
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Lol Laughing Emoticons

@GregW - I love it!

I'm really getting confused, though. 🤪  Sounding early Rock'n Roll to me!  Or, maybe RockaBilly?

 

Here's a "Swing" Fiddle tune from "Peakfiddler", worth trying. 

"Hot Fiddle Club" 

 

I couldn't resist this! 

https://www.youtube.com/channe.....0H3VpECzyw

 

giphy.gif

 

- Emily

 

...just correct me if I'm way off!😏

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GregW
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October 27, 2020 - 7:50 pm
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@ELCB id probably call my share more western swing ...not alot of western swing in my playlist though..  or ragtime for that matter so probably missing the classification...  but i like it!  ill call it great music! laugh

the swing cats rock!!.makes me wanna dust off the es.. and do..that music thing i never followed through on with it. 😂😁😏

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GregW
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October 27, 2020 - 8:10 pm
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ELCB said
Lol Laughing Emoticons

@GregW - I love it!

I'm really getting confused, though. 🤪  Sounding early Rock'n Roll to me!  Or, maybe RockaBilly?

 

Here's a "Swing" Fiddle tune from "Peakfiddler", worth trying. 

"Hot Fiddle Club" 

 

I couldn't resist this! 

https://www.youtube.com/channe.....0H3VpECzyw

 

giphy.gif

 

- Emily

 

...just correct me if I'm way off!😏

  

the hot fiddle club..hold my drink... i got this one!!  yeah!

like that!  good share there

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GregW
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October 27, 2020 - 9:37 pm
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Emily @ELCB you may like some old recordings of John Lusk..I think...it would be.  I came across him looking for music for a recording of a tune called Christmas Eve the Stuart Brothers did.  The Stuart Brothers version sounds more old timey to me but again i think..was based on an old version by John Lusk..  which is more swing type stuff this topic is about.  I havent asked or found anything that says that..its just what I hear when I listen to both.   It doesnt sound like the Isham Monday version if you go looking.  at least not to me.sounds more Lusk 🙂  ..if your interested you may wanna look it up and compare for yourself.  It would be entertaining to get your take and see if its just me hearing being off..

and... found this page of resources for fiddle/banjo/mandolin

https://ragtime-resource.com/

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ELCB
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October 27, 2020 - 10:09 pm
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Woohoo Jump Emoticons

@GregW -

That is a FANTASTIC resource link!

Thank you! 

https://media.tenor.com/images/6b19f35466e0077ad043e5b1e5e46721/tenor.gif

 

- Emily

Christmas List started! 

(paypal's my friend) 😁

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Fiddlerman
Fort Lauderdale
October 28, 2020 - 8:46 am
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I love Ragtime and blues. There are some great ragtime books for those of you who read music. It would take considerably longer time to learn these tunes without help. Thanks for all the cool links.

"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."

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