Welcome to our forum. A Message To Our New and Prospective Members . Check out our Forum Rules. Lets keep this forum an enjoyable place to visit.
Private messaging is working again.
Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
Related Topics
(2 votes) 
I have heard this expression many times here, circle of fifths. I looked it up, got a viual representation of it and a wikipedia explanation but I still don't understand it. Can someone explain it to me and it's reason for being.
Members
Offline
Well, it's simple enough. from any note on the outer ring you can go clockwise one notch and find the 5th or counterclockwise to find the 4th. This one they also added the key signatures and the relative minors.
As far as it's reason for existing.. Uhhh... To give first semester music students something to memorize? To have a diagram to fill some space in a textbook? To be honest, I never thought it particularly useful. Anybody who plays probably already knows most of the info in the chart anyway. Face it, probably most beginner violinists already know 1/3 of it because they know the names of their strings. LOL
But so far as a way it could be useful.. Hmm.. Ok, so if you get a VSO that is actually a hopeless case, and decide to make a clock out of it, this could be an interesting alternative to the usual clock face. Use the major keys for telling AM and the minor keys for PM..
Then you could say things like:
"Holy crud, it's already half-past D major? I gotta get some sleep!"
"This young wine may have a lot of tannins now, but in 5 or 10 years it is going to be spectacular, despite the fact that right now it tastes like crude oil. You know this is how it is supposed to taste at this stage of development." ~ Itzhak Perlman
Offline
We've got a nice poster of the Circle of Fifths that I've been meaning to frame for our music room for a while now. Thanks for the reminder!
Yikes! I'm very glad not to have run across anything in the key of F#/G flat. Makes my head hurt just looking at that key signature.
When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,
I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.
Regulars
Offline
Thanks everyone.
I'm still none the wiser!
What's it used for?
I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....
Regulars
Offline
Terry, the only reason I ever use it is to figure out what notes are sharp or flat in any key, instead of having to memorize it. Maybe there's some deeper more mysterious use for it, but that's why I use it. 
Regulars
Offline
Lol, I use the key signature at the beginning of the music for that.
I reckon if you turn the circle upside down there is actually a message from the devil!!
I am amazed at how old people of my age are.....
Offline
TerryT said
I reckon if you turn the circle upside down there is actually a message from the devil!!
Speaking of which, here's a corollary to my whole "sharps are good, flats are bad" thing...the top half of the Circle of Fifths (slanted top half, that is, from B flat to A) is good and the bottom half is clearly evil!
(You guys know I'm kidding about this stuff, right?)
When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,
I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.
TerryT said
Lol, I use the key signature at the beginning of the music for that.I reckon if you turn the circle upside down there is actually a message from the devil!!
You have to put it on a record player and turn it backwards
Offline
I believe it's intention is to make is easier to understand the connection of the keys and intervals.
"The richest person is not the one who has the most,
but the one who needs the least."
LoL!
The first thing that i've learned in solfeggio was how to add those sharps, flats and how to build a scale =)
FCGDAEB - #
BEADGCF - b
Really sounds like a spell in Russian "Fa Do Sol' Re L'a Mee See" 
Thanks for the picture, Kevin! =) Though i can't explain it in any understandable way 
Offline
Mad_Wed said
Really sounds like a spell in Russian "Fa Do Sol' Re L'a Mee See"
Which, of course, brings to mind one of my favorite movies...
When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,
I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.
Brings back memories of seeing the play and later on seeing the movie.
Pro advisor
Regulars
Offline
Are you kidding me? you mean I am the only one who knows what the circle is for? The mystical magical circle of fifthes? Muhahahaha the POWER!!!!
WikiPower!! In music theory, the circle of fifths (or circle of fourths) is a visual representation of the relationships among the 12 tones of the chromatic scale, their corresponding key signatures, and the associated major and minor keys. More specifically, it is a geometrical representation of relationships among the 12 pitch classes of the chromatic scale in pitch class space.
Easy to understand right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C....._of_fifths
So, what is it used for? Composing, Transposing and Chords mostly. And mostly how notes relate to each other in those terms. Since none of us really do any of that except maybe FM and he most surely has a computer program do that for him its an archaic tool. But, if you are a composistion geek you might dig it.
Yeah me...! Woohoo!
"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.
Offline
In other words, it's sort of an abacus for music.
When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,
I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.
Pro advisor
Regulars
Offline
the Abacus is an ancient calculator or register for math stuff. A circle of fifths helps people understand the harmonic relationships between the fourths and fifths in music so they can write music for different instruments. Perhaps the person doing the writing doesnt have all the relationships memorized, this is a quick reference tool.
"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.
Offline
Ok, ok...then it's a periodic table for music.
When the work's all done and the sun's settin' low,
I pull out my fiddle and I rosin up the bow.
Pro advisor
Regulars
Offline
I was thinkin "slide rule" but periodic table could work too. (teasin)
"Please play some wrong notes, so that we know that you are human" - said to Jascha Heifetz.
Advanced member
Offline
thejazzresource.com recommends this free, interactive tool. complete with examples and quizzes.
http://www.circle-of-fifths.ne.....learn.html
btw, i learn by ear - method #2, but have to repeat it constantly to memorize the letters . 
Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. Charlie Parker
Regular advisor
Regulars
Offline
In equal temperament, the circle of fifths is very helpful with piano tuning. It allows assigning an equal interval between the 12 pitches. On a piano the only perfect pitch is A-440. Once the 12 pitches or notes are "tempered" the rest are tuned as octaves, thirds, fifths.
"The dictionary is the only place where success comes before work." - Mark Twain
Honorary tenured advisor
Regulars
Offline
Mad_Wed said
LoL!The first thing that i've learned in solfeggio was how to add those sharps, flats and how to build a scale =)
FCGDAEB - #
BEADGCF - b
Yes, there is an order of building major/minor scales.
If you randomly write sharps on the staff, there are seven different places to write them. So you could mark up the staff with sharps in 2^7 (two raised to the seventh power), that is, 128 different ways. Similarly you could mark up the staff with flats 128 different ways.
But there are only 12 ways that leave you with a major/minor scale.
There are two basic ways to transform one (major/minor) scale into another:
1) add a flat or remove a sharp at the seventh scale degree, or
2) add a sharp or remove a flat at the fourth scale degree.
Examples of the first way: Adding a flat at B on the C-major scale transforms it to the F-major scale. Removing the sharp at G on the A-major scale transforms it to the D-major scale.
Examples of the second way: Removing the flat at B on the F-major scale transforms it to the C-major scale. Removing the sharp at C on the D-major scale transforms it to the G-major scale.
The first way (add a flat or remove a sharp) is a counter-clockwise step on the circle of fifths, and it decreases the scale's tonic by a perfect fifth. You can also consider this to be an increase of a perfect fourth.
The second way (add a sharp or remove a flat) is a clockwise step on the circle of fifths, and it increases the tonic by a perfect fifth (decreases it by a perfect fourth).
Mad_Wed, you have summarized the circle of fifths in your two sequences of staff positions above. BEADGCF is the order of adding flats and is a counter-clockwise progression on the circle. FCGDAEB is the order of adding sharps and is a clockwise progression. Each notch on the circle corresponds to a scale and a key signature. Moving one notch represents one of the two transformations I describe above.
1 Guest(s)
Strabo
ELCBK
Mouse
Fiddlerman
Jols
