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I need my tuner to tell if I’m in tune or not but I feel like I’m at the stage where I’m sort of noticing if I’m slightly out. It has taken a long time to get to this point and I’m wondering what to do next . Any ideas on how to progress will be appreciated. Thanks
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Katie M said
I need my tuner to tell if I’m in tune or not but I feel like I’m at the stage where I’m sort of noticing if I’m slightly out. It has taken a long time to get to this point and I’m wondering what to do next . Any ideas on how to progress will be appreciated. Thanks
Hi, @Katie L. That is an excellent question. You always have excellent questions, 👍. It varies with individuals. But, let me tell you my experience.
I, like you need or needed the tuner as a guide. I can't tell if a note is right or not. It was a slow process for me, but I am beginning to know. A lot of this has to do with the 35 Day Challenge I am doing, and Fiddlerman's etudes for the strings, can't remember what they are exactly called. I am more focused with a challenge. Anyway, I started noticing that I wasn't needing my tuner as much. It took me a few years. I do get lost occasionally, still. I have my tuner attached in case I need it.
If I can start out with my fingers properly placed in first position, I am usually good to go. But, after I have moved around a bit, I can get lost. That is when I have to resort to the tuner to find my "home base". If I spend too much time searching, it really messes me up. Lately, that hasn't happened much.
Sometimes, I need it when I begin. I have been paying more attention to my positioning at my home base when I start, and I am finding that I am beginning to start without a tuner, again because of that challenge - intentonation improvement is my goal, and I really believe using those Fiddlerman etudes with my challenge has helped greatly.
My ears are beginning to hear what the note should be and I am beginning to tell if I did an accurate half step to the next note when needed, an accurate whole step, etc. I am beginning to actually notice it. I think you are at that stage. I think, that you, like me, needed the tuner to be able to pick up on this, others can do it with just sliding around and not using a tuner.
I would use Fiddlerman's etudes for the strings and do the same string etude sheet over and over for a few days. Add the next string and then do those two strings and repeat adding a string and combining all strings. Pay attention to your arm, your wrist, your fingers, and the sound. I think you are at a point where this will hone that skill for you. I still have a little ways to go, but my intonation is getting so much better, and I rarely need to use my tuner and find my way back, like using a compass.
My next goal is to be able to tune it without a tuner, but that isn't as pressing for me.
Keep up the good work and progress. Hone your new skill.
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In addition to learning the intervals between one note and the next, you can also check your intonation by playing the notes with a neighboring open string. For example, in first position, the third finger is exactly an octave above the lower string, so if you play those notes together, it's fairly easy to tell when the fingered note is in tune. You can do the same with other fingers if you learn what the intervals against the open string should sound like.
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Thank you Mouse it’s interesting to read your experience. I seem to have my eyes on the tuner or the music. I’ve got a really good scales book ( I like it because I actually get to turn the page unlike my Sevcik book) I think I get what you are saying about using the tuner as a compass to find your way back. I don’t think my ears are great but they must be improving ! Also thanks Andrew I don’t do double stops yet but when I do I’ll try that. I do keep hearing about that method .
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The first step is to stop using the tuner.
Because you have used tapes, to see were your fingers went, and then replaced them with looking at the tuner to make sure you are in tune, your ears havent developed to the extent that they would have, You are using your eyes all the time instead of your ears. The good thing though, is that you now can bow and can also move your left hànd ànd can read music as well.
Playing in tune is subjective and is also a struggle for every single fretless instrument player, you are not on your own.
I struggled with the note b for a long time because my ears dont pick up that frequency too well, but I can do it now through hard practice. There are several things you can do, first of all as I have told you in the past play the notes e, g, d and a, listen to them very, very hard, when they are correct you will hear them ring, it is absolutely unmistakeable, once you can hear them the other notes slot in between.
Get a very simple tune that you know inside out and as you play sing it to yourself, this works.
You could also do as I did and learn to sing scales, very time consuming, traditional method, but works.
The most important thing is to stop using crutches all the time, I dont comment on here much anymore, but I had to reply to your question as I think you have the makings of a very good player. Other people on here will disagree with my ideas, but the fact is you have to listen hard, you have to be able to hear ringing notes simple as.
Cant beat a sunny day
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I think the open string check is one of the easiest ways. begore you start playing the whole tune practice going back and forth bewteen and open string and up the scale.
One method thats not for everyone is have a track playing in the key of the piece of music youre working on. Say a G "drone" track when playing in G. you can find them on youtube or at the top of this website under learning aids i believe.
one thing ive noticed is ones ears can convince a person theyre in or even out of tune and its not until liatening back a time later that its noticed... so keep recording and make mental notes of where you were off. make an effort to check in those spots WITH a tuner. only in those spots. as time goes by those will become fewer. you want to get away from eyes and use ears...but as a gap that may help.
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Thank you stringy I will take your advice. I know my ears need to wake up I’m really trying !! And thanks for saying that about my playing !!
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@Katie L recording yourself, & then listening to it played back is a good way to tell how your hearing stuff while your playing.
All good suggestions above--Open strings are really good. If you can't play strings as a double stop, you can just play them back to back (e.g., down bow on open D, then up bow on third finger D on the A string).
Characterize people by their actions and you will never be fooled by their words.
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@Katie L -
All excellent suggestions. 🤗
To me, the best way to start training your ears better is to play along with video sheet music, or read your sheet music while also listening to an audio track of someone playing it. Start learning with the audio or video speed set SLOW.
Once you think you are doing that well, then record yourself playing it - compare that to what you've been playing along with.
...hearing how the music is supposed to sound, while you practice along, will also help you memorize pieces.
The more you try to play what you hear, instead of just trying to memorize finger position, the further ahead you'll be - it all adds up to helping your ears/hands/eyes & brain work together.
...tuners aren't always that accurate, you can't always count on your strings staying perfectly tuned, maybe you'll want to play with others someday, or maybe you find yourself without any sheet music - all reasons to learn to train your ears.
And it takes time.
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Thanks all for the suggestions ! There is another Lora staples vid that I’m half way through watching as well. I’m definitely going in the right direction and this week it’s been scales every day !
t=560s
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@Katie L -
That's great news & a good video!
I believe any kind of exercises you can do to make yourself more aware of what you hear will help you.
Listening to correctly played intervals, while listening to yourself practice them, is extremely helpful.
Also, when you memorize a tune in your head, or by humming/singing, it means your brain knows the different intervals, but then you have to get your brain to work with your fingers to make those happen.
IMHO no one can get very far on violin without this, because 'muscle memory' can only get you so far - good intonation on violin/viola/cello requires much more finger precision - and sometimes requires adaptation for best harmony. Not possible on a piano or any keyed instrument.
It isn't learned overnight. I'm 3 years into this & I still work on it everyday, but you'll feel everything gets easier & easier - MUCH more enjoyable! 🤗
- Emily
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You make a lot of sense Emily and I kind of need things in simple terms ha ha . I have been looking up intervals since watching the vid I find it complicated but I like the way it’s explained in the vid. I think I’m doing ok on my scales and I think I’m getting on better because they are laid out on the music staff.. in my beginner book they weren’t laid out like that. This helps with my note reading. So I’m feeling ok about my practice at the moment. Also been playing Starry Starry Night today. Trying to listen really hard !! Thank you for your comments I love the cat too mine are suffering in the heat !
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